From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: emacs-30 baaf97ce1a1: ; Fix some ungrammatical uses of "allows to" Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2024 22:00:07 +0100 Message-ID: <875xrhafqg.fsf@zephyr.silentflame.com> References: <86h6b1ewop.fsf@gnu.org> <87ed65al96.fsf@zephyr.silentflame.com> <86cylpes4c.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13904"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 30 23:01:10 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sk8k1-0003Kp-Ko for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2024 23:01:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sk8jH-0001DW-RL; Fri, 30 Aug 2024 17:00:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sk8jG-0001Cz-1m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2024 17:00:22 -0400 Original-Received: from sendmail.purelymail.com ([34.202.193.197]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sk8jE-0006ZT-40 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2024 17:00:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=py6fJroVdb888eqqvk2lCOwz4wEwzVPXIslippCv4dee/yTH/VmoaeAxffgrVsV3CCw+/mXEVO1fIIIVrOhymH3MkbT7JLJ23YBaXC2SVE0xXuvnOEe27GbevjvS3HCt1iMmkRJIgzpwVB665AqbsaLtdrvkXklbgTWQHHrPTtvpfLX0QkgTK+qs3fXjKKdxkIqja469ay7IyPZZZJ2vvERnaHbOCgzvSVVLsmKUG4BjodrWtmEXGFnKz8NztSsSKlJfmENV7YJofOKyki/KXrIZW8MsVyXu7li1sPdbIqijpZhvlvPiiJTw4fmhcuRT4RUPBbkIISgDsAQKPqQY/Q==; s=purelymail3; d=spwhitton.name; v=1; bh=PrXUXsQBaYRmnr2HW+Tyq3Hka2cJKzSEh0tAnZCJNoc=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date; DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=WRPnP+A8bA5bo6OmebncN/E2i5/IPvoWigMv6tH8HuplHWEkeq7eY0eCp5zqn6Y8lSWO0SKRQdXrxWymRKlu2sEjQQdwdv+EhHRTitXfkKL9NgXxvzJwR6IdoRAX9aTf9bUBMNgISRacnfbMghSthvH2aqfm6YMmCnaHtyJTKH9Hc1cEnWa4r8GYz7EY/a5Fgkw7kbkAcijQmFKB78uMwoy8Qr87+LXtD5TdBfTgcJzQsOlwRpXRzDcqwp0liasCCDVG98x4D8Q1yB34jg57AdrSol0tmiiCXOZtkyTAneDWV8mBYIJVOg5PTAXSLDFzgghGgKLrnsQ0lfZDYAXUAg==; s=purelymail3; d=purelymail.com; v=1; bh=PrXUXsQBaYRmnr2HW+Tyq3Hka2cJKzSEh0tAnZCJNoc=; h=Feedback-ID:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date; Feedback-ID: 20115:3760:null:purelymail X-Pm-Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Received: by smtp.purelymail.com (Purelymail SMTP) with ESMTPSA id 1587165793; (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Fri, 30 Aug 2024 21:00:12 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: by zephyr.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3E560940F2D; Fri, 30 Aug 2024 22:00:07 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <86cylpes4c.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 30 Aug 2024 22:18:59 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=34.202.193.197; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=sendmail.purelymail.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323218 Archived-At: Hello, On Fri 30 Aug 2024 at 10:18pm +03, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I disagree, but that is not the important aspect of this. The > important aspect is that changing grammar should not make the text > harder to read and understand. By mechanically changing those places > to be grammatically you definitely made at least some of the text more > awkward and hard to read. E.g., look at this one: Let me just note that I didn't do it mechanically. I always read the surrounding context if I change something like this, else I can't know for sure that I did it correctly. > -The command @code{recover-file} no longer allows to display the diffs > +The command @code{recover-file} no longer allows displaying the diffs > > Does this really read well to you? Or how about this one: > > -dnl The first variable allows to distinguish all three cases. > +dnl The first variable allows distinguishing all three cases. > > "Allows distinguishing"? really? Yes -- I don't find these the slightest bit unclear, unnatural or difficult to read. "allows distinguishing" doesn't stand out to me. > You should have instead reworded the text to avoid the use of these > constructs, making the text more clear and side-stepping the issue of > "allow to" entirely. Well, in this, as you are a non-native speaker, your opinion on whether it's clear counts for more than mine. So I would be happy to put in the effort to try to make it clearer. However, I don't think I'm capable of doing a good job, because they all read perfectly fine for me. My only suggestion would be "allows you to make Emacs distinguish" ? -- Sean Whitton