From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:00:12 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <874o1qihxv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <831ux6cv5o.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3gpku3o.fsf@gnus.org> <834o1ypa2b.fsf@gnu.org> <87aabnn3mz.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83mxfnwwyd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ipqbzogt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83liv7wqhe.fsf@gnu.org> <87liv75xsh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83k4arvx05.fsf@gnu.org> <87bow116je.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83wrepyq3r.fsf@gnu.org> <87sjpar2l2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83aabizh94.fsf@gnu.org> <87hb5qim2n.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <838vr2zeza.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3geijid.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <837h6mzdyh.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312912857 19242 80.91.229.12 (9 Aug 2011 18:00:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 18:00:57 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 09 20:00:53 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qqqbk-0005de-JK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:00:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56780 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qqqbj-0003Vs-Vx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:00:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54277) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qqqbe-0003Vg-HS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:00:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqqbS-0005PE-E9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:00:46 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:57485) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqqbS-0005Ow-2j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:00:34 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QqqbP-0005US-7Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:00:31 +0200 Original-Received: from p508ede6c.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.142.222.108]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:00:31 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by p508ede6c.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:00:31 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p508ede6c.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:kjjIePNFKFpW/Zj9meRge27K0rI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143071 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: David Kastrup >> Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 19:26:18 +0200 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> From: David Kastrup >> >> Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:30:56 +0200 >> >> >> >> Emacs should not become unpredictable in an ASCII-only environment >> >> with ASCII-only data sources. Let alone in a latin-1 environment. >> > >> > Dealing with email has long ago stopped being an ASCII-only or >> > Latin-1-only environment. >> >> What about "ASCII-only data sources" did you not understand? > > What part of "there are no ASCII-only data sources" did you not > understand? You are confusing an antecedent with an absolute statement. An absolute statement that is just wrong. For example, this mail is an ASCII-only data source. >> [...] English-only mailing list without any foreign-language spam or >> senders [...] > > Where do you find such things nowadays? They don't exist. Reverting to sentence part surgery in order to let your point stand is pretty much equivalent to admitting its untenability. >> limit my audience to multibyte-capable readers > > What are multibyte-uncapable readers in use nowadays? Wake up, it's > 2011 out there! The dumb MS Outlook supports directional marks for > quite some time. Typical Usenet groups I frequent not rarely use newsreaders like Xnews, Forte Agent and other tools that have a lot of problems dealing with multibyte characters, in particular when replying to mail not matching the local environment. If you want to wake up to 2011, Usenet is dead, and everybody uses web forums. But I am still communicating with a lot of dinosaurs. People who still, 2011 or not, tend to get annoyed at HTML mail. I am contributing code to projects where I don't want to see utf-8 characters checked in that I have not explicitly typed myself, let alone directional characters. -- David Kastrup