From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vitalie Spinu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: font-lock-maximum-decoration should be 2 by default? Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:49:04 +0200 Organization: EUR Message-ID: <874no12tan.fsf_-_@gmail.com> References: <87wr0x8zxj.fsf@gmail.com> <831uj5bnid.fsf@gnu.org> <87obm98trc.fsf@gmail.com> <95FA6116C6194DAAA658F916B48C5E23@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1345232963 1087 80.91.229.3 (17 Aug 2012 19:49:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:49:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 17 21:49:20 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T2SXn-0006vD-5B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 21:49:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34756 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T2SXl-0008QU-U7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:49:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47181) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T2SXi-0008NV-Nr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:49:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T2SXh-0001WU-Lz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:49:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-we0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:44018) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T2SXf-0001WC-HS; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:49:11 -0400 Original-Received: by weys10 with SMTP id s10so3079217wey.0 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=V3iv/p3n137+Qc46yCGLapdMOosLCF8Y1ku4gkiGPE8=; b=D8qsiLczkEpKvM9rrmPx6K9/57sOX4vFG3y7AC3quYzLdThOejv5VwW4k+oNMF4ao0 ksCFNOnQ3KW0TaEMc+m3rZKRboo/jsixKrL9hoftNsoMfqCi2gymsADbh6qzJez4/8ZC x2WCHYLkzmH3D74QSnNJ3YfviETE63IiV8G1cYpLeOIW37XR3qKpFhJn/bDrnrd2HAz/ 7vJGi4bEHcgIrim9n5EHou2dTZZXF2wtEFbqbHK2rvd70ph2PC+tfl/TIa74YjL9dOZZ 5g/zqhbud3SDZRPTo2ZCbKDqgkR17KVGMp5NlztTtx/8NOoqMLFQfTidPVBca/FBqko1 quqQ== Original-Received: by 10.216.182.195 with SMTP id o45mr3193862wem.185.1345232950464; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (i108036.upc-i.chello.nl. [62.195.108.36]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ck9sm17125522wib.2.2012.08.17.12.49.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:49:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <95FA6116C6194DAAA658F916B48C5E23@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:57:28 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.125.82.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:152620 Archived-At: >> "Drew Adams" >> on Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:57:28 -0700 wrote: >> And obviously some guys (may be including the developer) don't like that. > If you mean that you don't like `t' to be the default, then argue here for a > change in default value. > If you mean that you don't want the default behavior for a mode you create to be > maximum, then you are out of luck. I meant both. So let me try to defend the new default: 1) Setting font-lock-maximum-decoration to 2 (i.e. 3 levels recommended by emacs info page "23.6.5 Levels of Font Lock") won't impact most of the modes, if any at all. Which mode is defining more than 3 recommended levels? 2) People tend to stick to defaults even when their "true" preferences are different. Probably the most dramatic case of life and death is the following http://danariely.com/2008/05/05/3-main-lessons-of-psychology/ (first story). In font-lock language: If you design a feature which is intended for 30% of salad lovers. Then by the virtue of emacs defaults and peoples' psychology, 90% of the people will end up using it. That is, 60% of normal users (which don't like salads) will end up eating it. 3) Developers which would like to capture 30% of salad lovers will try to find workarounds. That is, add redundant, mode-specific font-lock customization, or mess with font-lock-maximum-decoration. 4) If not self-obvious, the proposed modification would allow a default level of fontification. Thing which is not possible right now. 5) The most knowledgeable person to decide on the default level of font lock, is the developer of the mode. Why then emacs would decide that the maximum decoration is the best one? >> All levels are activated by default (font-lock-maximum-decoration is t). > Yes, Emacs Dev concluded after many years that `t' is the most appropriate > default value. Interesting. I am curious of reasons for that. Cannot see one by myself, but I must be missing something. Vitalie.