From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer)
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Contributors and maintainers
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:36:08 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <874mhkffvr.fsf@T420.taylan> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83r3koe2nj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:07:12 +0300")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer)
>> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:29:13 +0200
>>
>> I provided clarification several times. It was ignored.
>
> No, it was not ignored. It was disagreed with, which is something
> entirely different.
>
>> One person got it and also repeated it in their words:
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-10/msg01464.html
>
> After which I pushed a change that took care of the missing
> information.
>
>> And me again on the bug discussion:
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2015-10/msg00676.html
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2015-10/msg00698.html
>>
>> That makes at least 7 times in which I repeated the same thing, and it
>> was ignored every time.
>
> No, it was not ignored. It was repeatedly read, considered, and
> _disagreed_ with.
>
>> Some of those mails contain very detailed, careful explanations of the
>> issue, which I spent a lot of time on. At least 2 or 3 are of that
>> nature.
>
> And it took me a similarly considerable amount of time to re-read the
> same explanations over and over again, and then provide a polite
> response. All that because you completely refused to accept a simple
> comment that required you to make a change in a single line of code,
> so that your package will use a standard Emacs API.
>
>> I hope this makes it clear why I'm outraged. When I say something like
>> "I repeated myself a dozen times and was ignored every time," the
>> "dozen" in that sentence is, by now, actually literal. That's absurd.
>
> You were NOT ignored.
>
>> What I gather from being persistently ignored is that I'm receiving
>> absolutely *no* respect *at all* from most people here. That is the one
>> and only reason I would start losing respect towards others. The
>> detailed and polite explanations of my problem listed above hopefully
>> give a hint on which way the lack of respect primarily goes.
>
> There's no disrespect, there never was. Respecting an opinion does
> not mean it must be accepted. Rejecting an opinion or a patch doesn't
> mean disrespect, it just means disagreement, in this case on purely
> technical grounds.
>
>> The lack of respect I'm receiving is *not* of the kind where someone is
>> being actively nasty, insulting, etc. It's a kind where a person's very
>> voice is being denied, not even countered. That's pretty grave.
>
> We should be allowed to disagree and reject patches even if there are
> no insults or obnoxious behavior on the part of the person who offers
> an opinion or a patch. Patches and opinions can be rejected on purely
> technical grounds, not only on the grounds of nasty conduct.
>
> IOW, we are not obliged to automatically accept patches just because
> their submitter is well behaved. We actually try to ignore his/her
> behavior as best as we can, and consider the patches only on technical
> merits.
(Trying to respond to all of the above as briefly as I can.)
Can you please show a previous quote by you which serves to show that
you understood the reason I did not want to use shell-quote-argument,
and where you directly addressed that exact reason (either with a change
to shell-quote-argument, *or* an explanation of why you disagree with
that exact reason)?
When you show such a quote, then maybe we can look at it and see how it
could be that you feel my concern has been addressed, yet I don't.
>> I doubt most people who come to contribute code have much motivation to
>> work out basic social issues. My feedback is probably the best you will
>> get, and I'm not saying it's good at all.
>
> You are wrong. People do provide useful feedback here about these
> issues. Just yesterday we had such feedback from Ãscar Fuentes.
Point. That was pretty good feedback.
>> Most others will just leave the place immediately, or not even try
>> because they already saw in the archive or heard from others enough
>> horrible things about emacs-devel.
>
> From whom did you hear horrible things about emacs-devel? What
> horrible things?
It would be bad to name them, but emacs-devel has become a running joke
among some groups which contain experienced programmers and long-timers
of GNU and Emacs, as well as young folks who could be future Emacs
developers.
I would love it if this could change, and if both those experienced
people and potential future developers could partake in emacs-devel.
Taylan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-10-21 14:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 211+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-10-17 16:33 [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 17:14 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 18:23 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 20:28 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 20:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-17 21:25 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 21:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-17 22:00 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 7:55 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-18 10:07 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 10:55 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-18 12:59 ` Random832
2015-10-18 13:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:06 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-18 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 19:17 ` Random832
2015-10-18 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 4:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 5:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 5:19 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-19 5:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 8:16 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-31 17:03 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-10-31 16:50 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-10-31 19:03 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-17 22:09 ` Random832
2015-10-17 22:45 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 20:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-17 21:20 ` Random832
2015-10-17 21:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-17 21:27 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 21:53 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-17 22:22 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 2:40 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-18 10:03 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 16:40 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 17:48 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 2:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 13:35 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:14 ` Random832
2015-10-17 19:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 20:43 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 21:01 ` Random832
2015-10-17 17:23 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-17 18:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 18:42 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-19 12:35 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 12:59 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 13:09 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 13:48 ` Random832
2015-10-19 13:53 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 15:10 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-19 17:06 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 1:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 7:41 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 10:16 ` Nicolas Richard
2015-10-20 15:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 16:41 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 16:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 17:32 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 17:58 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 18:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 18:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 23:34 ` Contributors and maintainers (Was: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.) John Wiegley
2015-10-21 7:29 ` Contributors and maintainers Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 8:27 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-10-21 8:45 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 12:03 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 14:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:40 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 16:05 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 18:16 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-21 18:37 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 14:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-21 16:53 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 17:24 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 18:49 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 14:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer [this message]
2015-10-21 15:44 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 16:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 17:22 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:58 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 21:21 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 23:12 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 14:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:45 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-21 17:05 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 17:46 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 18:12 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 18:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-21 18:54 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-22 5:40 ` Maintainers and contributors (was: Contributors and maintainers) John Wiegley
2015-10-22 7:20 ` Maintainers and contributors David Kastrup
2015-10-22 10:34 ` Maintainers and contributors (was: Contributors and maintainers) Artur Malabarba
2015-10-22 11:08 ` Maintainers and contributors David Kastrup
2015-10-22 11:55 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-22 12:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-22 12:32 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 15:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 18:27 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-22 19:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-22 23:37 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-23 0:37 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-22 18:58 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-21 3:25 ` [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote Random832
2015-10-21 4:30 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 14:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:18 ` Random832
2015-10-21 14:40 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-21 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 16:37 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 17:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 17:06 ` Random832
2015-10-21 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:11 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-21 18:24 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-26 12:58 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-21 18:24 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-21 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:57 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-21 19:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:30 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-22 10:54 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-22 11:21 ` Jeff Clough
2015-10-22 12:47 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 15:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 15:23 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 15:51 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-22 13:09 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-22 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 15:12 ` David Kastrup
2015-11-06 23:35 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-11-07 7:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 15:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-22 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 17:25 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-21 18:11 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 18:49 ` Random832
2015-10-21 19:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:10 ` Random832
2015-10-21 19:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:50 ` Random832
2015-10-22 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 7:03 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 13:41 ` Random832
2015-10-22 13:53 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 14:41 ` Random832
2015-10-22 14:50 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 16:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-22 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-01 18:39 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-11-01 20:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-01 22:34 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-20 19:00 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 19:48 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-10-20 20:47 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 21:08 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-10-21 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:22 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-20 16:21 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 17:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:22 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 17:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 18:12 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 18:55 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-22 3:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-19 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 13:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 13:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 13:41 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-19 13:43 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 13:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-19 14:09 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 15:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-19 17:08 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 17:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-19 17:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 4:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-20 7:26 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 7:55 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 8:17 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-20 8:38 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 12:48 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 11:45 ` Becoming an Emacs contributor (was: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.) Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-20 12:56 ` Becoming an Emacs contributor Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 17:32 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 17:53 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:53 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 18:44 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 19:12 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-24 17:26 ` Nix
2015-10-20 16:47 ` Becoming an Emacs contributor (was: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.) Kaushal Modi
2015-10-20 8:34 ` [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 8:49 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 8:54 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 15:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 16:31 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 16:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 17:28 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 18:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
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