From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs project mission (was Re: "If you're still seeing problems, please reopen." [ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:58:49 +0100 Message-ID: <874kz0pa9y.fsf@gnus.org> References: <20191117113054.49837.qmail@mail.muc.de> <87pnhq7mxg.fsf@gnus.org> <87bltaz9g4.fsf@telefonica.net> <834kz25qp9.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2wexsv1.fsf@telefonica.net> <20191118175639.08d02820@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="149879"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , John Wiegley , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Perry E. Metzger" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 19 08:59:05 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iWyPh-000coF-4Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:59:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42414 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iWyPg-00010A-0u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 02:59:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47065) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iWyPZ-0000zF-R1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 02:58:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iWyPY-0003q2-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 02:58:57 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:36736) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iWyPY-0003p6-Dl; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 02:58:56 -0500 Original-Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iWyPS-0002aB-L3; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:58:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20191118175639.08d02820@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> (Perry E. Metzger's message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2019 17:56:39 -0500") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242418 Archived-At: "Perry E. Metzger" writes: > Unfortunately, there's a potential negative cycle here. A certain > percentage of users of free software become developers. If we start > starving ourselves of users of Emacs, we end up becoming starved of > developers for Emacs, too. Indeed. Without attracting new users (and therefore new developers), Emacs is moribund. Kids these days don't use email. Have a look at all the enthusiastic people talking about Emacs on reddit and Stackexchange -- it apparently never occurs to many of them that it's even an option so fire off an email to emacs-devel or use `M-x report-emacs-bug': It's just so far outside their experience of how things work. So I think having a modern interface for users to communicate with developers is vital, because that is how we'll get more developers in the long run. The trick is finding one that also supports the way more er seasoned developers like to work, which is (basically) the way we work now. It sounds like Gitlab has most of what we need, but not everything, and there seems to be a depressing dearth of development towards that goal. Perhaps if we committed it might make some Gitlab peeps also commit to making this work: That is, we say "If Gitlab grows feature X, Y and Z, then Emacs development is definitely moving to Gitlab", that might spur some enthusiasm. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no