From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: philipk@posteo.net (Philip K.) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Context menus and mouse-3 [was: Changes for emacs 28] Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:58:24 +0200 Message-ID: <874knwawvz.fsf@bulbul> References: <20200917201009.zkbphv2veyhdany4@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23457"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net, self@gkayaalp.com, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 18 01:20:59 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ3D0-0005xH-Al for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 01:20:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50496 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ3Cz-00060u-DD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:20:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52438) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ3AW-00056h-Qu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:18:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:43291) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ3AP-0001iK-6v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:18:20 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68FFD16005C for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:58:27 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1600379908; bh=lY5lOirdspUxqnnWAOyCzhs3njh0TSz8NOo6FfNszsU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=MyhCkdadOrpK3ZGpEaGx5gCD5GvE0cQKu/9YRPKNK5N0kEJNDwPc1Xqn8TvEr613I Ikuk0alRoTOM4EzHxqJsFt0vCKMzrtQ7vmXct+oBqc3QXCJHt3iP9F1OsD0Y/l515L ZJZbJM6sD02VDTYGTy8pid0pWtv1ipZJ/G1cpF7b6UoakLWf2SS1lVyGClAruEpHkL out48jZD/j2e/RD/BEVZcqK7kx58yTSMNdIUaGuBfaJ9NCx6ZZnh2r0cGLCHCHYpMy 4s+gT7iBbyzgKyxKZFZObuSaJbFryIdPWAc90xz/VFNfxurseTXppjPmargzQF2AoJ 76r7/julRvovw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4BsrSd2JdSz6tmD; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:58:25 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <20200917201009.zkbphv2veyhdany4@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:10:09 +0200) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/17 17:58:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256037 Archived-At: Ergus writes: > But after all I understood that it is very hard to convince anyone > (students, colleges, projects managers) to invest so much time and > reading to learn how to do something simple they already know how to do > everywhere else. I sometimes feel this aspect is overstated. Yes, you might be a bit confused at first, but learning the basics of *using* Emacs isn't a intellectual endeavour. Arrow keys work, "Home", "End", "Delete" too. "Copy-Pasting" is probably the first big hurdle, but that's just a 1:1 mapping at first. Buffer and window management are 3-4 keybindings each. Working with files really only requires understating how to open files and how to save them. With these few keybindings, you already know the basics. I've seen people stick to vim just because it's cool knowing less about the editor. Sure, if someone's in a hurry to edit a file, they don't want to learn how to use a proper Editor first, but I don't think that Emacs should be geared towards that demographic either. If you want to open a file via the GUI, change a few words and forget about it, Gedit/Kwrite/Mousepad is probably a better choice (with better DE integration). -- Philip K.