From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:26:32 +0200 Message-ID: <874knsn6if.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87a6xlac0q.fsf@mercovich.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17491"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, casouri@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eduardo Mercovich Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 20 11:27:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvd2-0004Sm-M0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:27:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36420 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvd1-00061D-Iz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 05:27:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55226) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvcL-0005W7-QB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 05:26:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:40515) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvcI-0002BS-Cm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 05:26:45 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4FA9160063 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:26:33 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1600593993; bh=ImhTVlKBfX1WcFSS/nfgPHi8isBr2zhvCnUYcCOsz60=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=kWAuG35v6vm7JAuWqlwFQ2sA3PlNNauCUCvyUb2+FVKlfkO3DJaZqy7hIDOD/0E02 a+GPMqms+uo7+X0jDzIXmYK/5hga20alYK9ayNVtsy5DxRbH8lEJV0Dfiq4Yrf3/0D 9wIlSFB20Gsv77Ey6TV15xvThgB49suGaQnc35IAyII+n0IK4Km31UqfpCeXbXYwIk tG8LOvUwuAK25O1uoSlM7EcFpYwusiQNNENnYRs73P9ple1G6YG4B06v1obCTgrh0+ 7WWoZp5IAfhnahS59jqWSRpJUIs/O+CWhiwH3jhqm8ipzIp2aGkhFu82tE58tz8H4P u+PbGHC3wa7JA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4BvMdh6ZJVz9rxD; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:26:32 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87a6xlac0q.fsf@mercovich.net> (message from Eduardo Mercovich on Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:53:41 -0300) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/20 03:34:50 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256240 Archived-At: Eduardo Mercovich writes: > Hi Philip, thanks for your kind and fast feedback. > > Sorry I replied to everyone in the thread, just wanted a slower jump > into this pond. It looks like I'm now completely in the water. :D > >> An issue I can imagine is that a lot of the options that would be >> displayed in a wizard like this wouldn't mean too much to newcomers. >> [...] > > That's why a sample step/screen is included. The options are > (proposed to be) phrased in a way that could be understood without > knowing emacs. > > I was actually doubting even to include in each a link to it's canonical > URL (I assume that it would be the one already in the package manager). > > In the org-mode preferences "section" (let's call it that way because it > may have many steps) for example, leading stars should be explained (of > course, a screenshot would be the best): > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > > Org-mode defines heading hierarchy with asteriscs (stars) as the 1st character and arrange the left-alignment according to the heading level: 1 close to the left margin and other ones moving to the right. > Some people prefer to have a simpler visual display and use only the > alignment (and the font size and/or color) to show the heading hierarchy. > > Please select your option: > > (1) Hide the leading stars > > (2) Leave visible the leading stars > > (9) I'd like to leave this step for now (you can always make it later). > (0) I want to stop this wizard now. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > In this way, the User can always choose to stop, jump this option for > now, or take one of them. > > Also, there should be a way to go back (not included in this rough > draft). Even with the ability to skip and go back, I still think that a total newcomer won't be able to gain a lot from options like these. Maybe I'm just bad, but in my case, I would skim over the text or wouldn't be too interested in reading it in detail, to imagine what the differences would be like. If anything, a visualisation would be needed. For example in a separate window. >> Without a way to test and find out what these options _mean_, >> you would only be helping people that could already help themselves. > > Testing with users is one of my specialties, I would happily make a > testing protocol before making the design, tests and development. In a > way, it is like TDD, but with interaction design... I'm not sure we're talking about the same testing here? I had more of a "playground" like approach, where you can immediately or quickly see what this option means, but I don't know if that's what you had in mind too. -- Philip K.