From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Brooks Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Internationalize Emacs's messages (swahili) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2020 20:01:31 -0800 Message-ID: <874kk9usf8.fsf@db48x.net> References: <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> <83sg7xrgr5.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7odrdwy.fsf@gnu.org> <86sg7w39fh.fsf@163.com> <83pn30pku5.fsf@gnu.org> <86wnx8otoj.fsf@163.com> <834kkbp9vr.fsf@gnu.org> <87czyxuxw6.fsf@db48x.net> <878s9luu87.fsf@db48x.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14872"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Zhu Zihao , bugs@gnu.support, dimech@gmx.com, abrochard@gmx.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 26 05:02:28 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kt0mh-0003c3-S1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:02:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46854 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt0mg-0004kR-U2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:02:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36104) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt0lu-0004La-U3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:01:39 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp-out-4.mxes.net ([2605:d100:2f:10::315]:54861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kt0lt-0003lM-82 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:01:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Customer-MUA (mua.mxes.net [10.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9558E7595A; Fri, 25 Dec 2020 23:01:33 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mxes.net; s=mta; t=1608955296; bh=LDV7jHMg/Ge9vUpgTjINaUg4odVsrAdjPdZwz7+NNtg=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uB/xFTkXNm4ynq5X0vZ9P0goEI4pS5x6LuRrl+iL8XSYKRa9se4urKnzT87vi96V1 cKY6eE7QzysrH5o9rjP5PKGO9nshUI9cr2+DzxcRCHA2zpjrL0NiDKkShZzBUWlTSO 1pEwTzAuBl1EKOyM/tgCK4KIThFrx55tzisYFd8M= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGOfPtRkwAAABJQ TFRFpKfbdou67PD6JjJgAwUWXGSeIcyLHgAAAkZJREFUOI1VU8Fy6yAMxLi+Q13fCZ3cnQL3dqTc 7RD+/1feStDXVnXHDuvVSivZTMba2GPdw3gyCGcMAFxTyrTd9dwGoxHiZX9PmRFUHYAQlGGtXY+F Uk0SJOxgJiUEnH1qkitT9D+pQub7qGAmUbR6bu3CvI96Yv6QqkBBMrsyfZccr1/RDXGDTLf4P7ZY glVxe2V+/ACXWO1gvDO9/gDRpFFVmPluvLcmBjd5H6d8DEte+Pbk4rcY/Fa5tLKLOtCZsuQKYhpa LOkYDT7hESya7/WIET3lfQBqX0pwFtbI832Is0ayMUR9B+12xjgPCQ089cfwkCkX6L5TPmRelJTh zMS0Sz1PyjLAMCUWjcmgQLWQMds+e3aaauZDf9dU9A2/8kPVF2odCUoMKHkfjJR+mbgC+DRiycw5 3XSqGe6HmhN/AWjHypkAXOAFW5EiuA1ge2GiZuMb0s1fSEXcATeLUfbyEY2L8yPOmdSsdghQXx3K pz2eoeXuYvMCINVFDrCdNfVUp4eJ6cSEbjbgFjBEvonGGTrgv9cHjAc8aVgSAPoxaONbzfwhDIhR at7IIS7fAGiDSwIA9alhhTBzfA7YM2FY6eMwayrIGK8FDFmshmUA43WqhFtpvoqG9HHaJ7fqtgTz 8EWVkgZgtsylFliHDgk0MB7KAEC45C/rgnGvanNLXyzOeTzcT2nw/N44gfrtYXRQLoz9Q3TgmJRx 2Mx/Q51qzpm+l3m8z2SWBqC5+PZXAtNYlGFf/gKfHfjFkDT4x7od7R+w3Ls+ZdQBuQAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 2020 22:48:59 -0500") X-Sent-To: Received-SPF: none client-ip=2605:d100:2f:10::315; envelope-from=db48x@db48x.net; helo=smtp-out-4.mxes.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261786 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>>> My personal opinion is that gettext is too limited. It works for simple >>>> things, but provides no help at all for complex things. >>> My feeling is that Emacs is so far from those problems that considering >>> such issues will do little more than delay any actual progress. >> Possibly, but I'm not so sure. Just looking at the message function for >> a moment (because it's easy to grep for), there are a nonzero number >> that do numeric substitions. Here are a few selected examples: > > You're missing my point: last I checked, we have 0 translations (well, > beside the tutorials, that is). So, worrying about addressing the > plurality of plurals better than most other programs doesn't seem right. Ah, ok. I suppose that's true. However, imagine the scenario in five years when we have to rip out gettext and 42 translations and replace them with something else because everyone is getting annoyed at how hard it is to pluralize things correctly. I don't think it will be all that difficult to do correctly, and if it costs us a few months up front then in the long run that will be time well-spent. db48x