From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: scratch/command 064f146 1/2: Change command to interactive ... modes Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:45:10 +0200 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <874kiaobzn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <20210213141225.11309.86562@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <834kic9g0a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xwvusc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v9as7xns.fsf@gnu.org> <87pn10ueld.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lf9apm.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6s3vrnd.fsf@gnus.org> <83o8gj9a8o.fsf@gnu.org> <871rdfvq86.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7mb98g8.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8gjuaez.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1v97bk.fsf@gnu.org> <877dn7u7wq.fsf@gnus.org> <835z2r94zw.fsf@gnu.org> <831rdf91r1.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft1vsmf5.fsf@gnus.org> <664f975c-9770-6d58-28be-d1bc8cd6bca5@yandex.ru> <87v9arr65g.fsf@gnus.org> <871rdfdnz7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="684"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 17 18:56:18 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR3i-00005u-Jy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:56:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49438 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR3h-0002PH-J8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:56:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52478) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR2B-0000z6-1K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:54:43 -0500 Original-Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:40417) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCR29-0006j6-4Y; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:54:42 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.96.116 Original-Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-96-116.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.96.116]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A3CF1C000F; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:54:35 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 17 Feb 2021 05:16:09 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.197; envelope-from=juri@linkov.net; helo=relay5-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265030 Archived-At: >>>> As for verbosity, it's not like there weren't any suggestions to >>>> reduce the number of annotations either (like tying command >>>> definitions to packages, or custom groups, etc). >>> >>> And I responded to all of those and said why I thought those were bad >>> ideas. >> >> Then why we are removing :group tags from defcustom? Because they are redundant. >> Completion annotations are redundant the same way. > > Not exactly in the same way, because the overwhelmingly most common case > with :group tags is that all defcustoms in one file share the same group. > > With completion annotations, we have seen ratios from 50-75 %. I don't know where you see such low ratios. In a typical package like gomoku.el there are 16 commands tagged with 'gomoku-mode', and 2 untagged. This is 90% vs 10%. It makes more sense to make tagging opt-out, i.e. to tag the whole package like defgroup does. Then tag only a few commands available globally. Usually most commands in a package are internal, only a few of commands are entry points. Package entry points are usually tagged with the autoload cookie. So only 10% of entry points need the `declare' tag, other 90% don't need any tagging.