From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making your own application credentials as a user Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 14:10:40 +1000 Message-ID: <874kbr9v55.fsf@gmail.com> References: <52589.36892.953561.24840@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4a9bddb9ec2f05e2e66f@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26210"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.3; emacs 28.0.50 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 15 06:43:13 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mF7zM-0006cx-SO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 06:43:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38376 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mF7zL-00049Q-Ee for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 00:43:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56070) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mF7yH-0003TW-Bo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 00:42:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102b]:38406) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mF7yF-0003XO-QD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 00:42:05 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102b.google.com with SMTP id om1-20020a17090b3a8100b0017941c44ce4so8887406pjb.3 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 21:42:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=Uuz6ZzpJ3nDeKKHN4MyCMagMQB+vFsHz7QnD6DAzPc0=; b=BUPMJW+3k8otk/pjBtxT0WJkh6GEdMCAqYfAAaiqAHAPNgkHrpwJq5brnVvjbWrBCs H5ZJdTAESy+rS3t9cZPYOxDLnPtiF5MJEziTeKUdxw8ZeMeOtSddw8gTOR0iRQXrc1+w v5v/asFBWPpoPe8jI2/nDgD9eWIBOcJ48TZCjo+F5/a1w4Y5QdPkaPQAqkBh9SM9Co7G nMGTC8T03xPZz2g7b2jLrSqsrhh6Angjsn78lmGkigEAQeALOQKjO3Ax17ZPBX8tfWOR YR/LMIFqx7zduXnneQtwb6P7TMRwOHdvpeat6CQCwLDpsIAz244T8PN9Wv9dn75LgQtq +NpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=Uuz6ZzpJ3nDeKKHN4MyCMagMQB+vFsHz7QnD6DAzPc0=; b=jE2Q2VTiK91wPlJnDg51h9eO9I1tUc+EAANKw2FxAZXCf7OqArqAH69nP9rSYQnv1U qobmz2T2Ktx2XmVajffsx8txdkpYdWt/ReVqhqoovuoDyoZSAtuhK42wTvYn2TwMphoS vTKFpGafHxqyNUjIwNHAfidhLJmJlBhSOrmJT0VX0YXGGh3YBFXrOkx5LWad2N5Wooa/ qd57kMJaG7GkHjl0GDnGZxfnkNmpXmx23k1D18MjNWDt7kNM5mt7XzPT3TG3cPXkyRFu phJpEaKGxdjBgDCu0WwW7W26LXutpHLezUof8RfR6VXpFZBfJ/DeeDxLR8buZkE5RerM amXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530M4WbP0ivQ2obvac/d1J5nUIn30bBDtMDB83DjXYfn7wWcG18Z /VuYK9MTy12oOUgBak671ooofJXNE9c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyvUGkEJd/sCkV41QGJqz3S+iI4SV01piIDlszMYBrCnKO7ntUFTdFie4V4ENKd1wPRlAmIKg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5901:: with SMTP id n1mr9479460pgb.378.1629002521742; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 21:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-114-139.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.114.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t12sm8322416pgo.56.2021.08.14.21.42.00 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 14 Aug 2021 21:42:01 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102b; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272400 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > Because of this each user has to create their own > > application credentials, > > Has anyone here actually done this? > If so, could you please post a practical description of what you had to do? > How long did it take you to do that? > > Did it impose any additional onerous conditions (beyond the conditions for > using Gmail, since by assumption you've accepted those). Yes, I did this a while back. It is a pain, but not terribly onerous. Basically, you have to register as a developer and agree to Google's T&C. However, in my case, as I have no plans to actually develop any application to be released and am only registering to get the developer ID in order to use it as part of my personal workflow to get the necessary oauth2 tokens to allow access to IMAP and SMTP, those T&C are largely irrelevant. I'm not using it now - mainly because when I did it, there were other issues - main one being I use mbsync to access the IMAP server and I had problems getting that working correctly. So for now, I'm still using the old application password facility. I think the key point here is that requiring all users who want to access an oauth based email provider to register as a developer in order to use Emacs to access the mail service is too much of a barrier, especially for less technical users. People are more likely to change their email client rather than jump through those hoops. It should be noted that users do jump through very similar hoops for other oauth based Emacs packages. For example the spotify, slack, stakcOverflow, forge and paradox packages all require the user visit a web site to create a token or get an application ID. In some of those cases, you also have to register as a developer (spotify and possibly slack - I can't remember). Of course we also need to note that if Emacs was able to get registered as an approved app with Google, then uses would not need to register as a developer. However, this only addresses one mail provider. It does nothing to improve the workflow for other oauth based service providers. How far is Emacs prepared to bend over in order to enable users to use Gmail?