From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:01:23 +1000 Message-ID: <874kbbznwv.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <87o89kw0hl.fsf@gnus.org> <0c369b25-aedd-1fdf-4813-503f27e42c7c@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18940"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.4; emacs 27.2.50 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 27 03:18:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJQW7-0004kW-3Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 03:18:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37622 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJQW5-0008QT-7s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:18:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33406) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJQV5-0007jV-CD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:17:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x42a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42a]:46613) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJQV3-0001tZ-KB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:17:43 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id y11so4244798pfl.13 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 18:17:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=yrSCdnXYCcdJ2nmhg/pDHd9wdzlGZeySXXn3YFdp1Lo=; b=EK5xip0a0U8HG7iMbtBJOVcZ/IthcTHZlJp/xJZm3YJ15g1bPd69bH+vdftmPQHYgG nsWwa4LkwcX3QqV+9XHV+3w9VbzEUQ45w1glAL3suzRbiVa9tPZEZ8er82eT+2lAiJHE FfBMc7Kol1jqon7vHeD/+Ju7dmknMOt4HqzUfxDqG5bQG+SSrcFitIA2ckOnIXkWXyE/ XsOCqZ9bFVoU/pnUWXXhP6qUVQ7mvR3bkfLrvd+KCwZ+l6Wrer5H8C2pMz35new3zYjm XcoXhCxie3bzXK55F1mzBghWTQASOWpSpmVGfT+j2egReCGnVDC7s7v0GYOaEPk3duUB SG6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=yrSCdnXYCcdJ2nmhg/pDHd9wdzlGZeySXXn3YFdp1Lo=; b=s2+C++uhrfdFThPn3mjunScjZkTgt7al7qRHF1N3SRoORbDSneE2XqapuC0rT8rPNE J9mIcvBp5RwDSNuETb7IxjZwf02DXk79Hapz47AyFfwbDBJYjNPkMZexSLgrS8jg1fjE lKNef6Dq8sMdiIfODPFPZ800x+gt/xknE4F2KYw+uuiOJryn7v01Bhktfri4hek7rnXG MoRIU5kfWYvn1GJmw9XoXuRjH3FF3FhZHgNefZLDTB0jRnJkwPNTBf7jhMjzxG3/lXrd usQAkJttySFYFpOofxWY6wUOeDOFwV3IQ/B1sE+E1DIqA1xTaC6qximK/S1lC+jv7o53 SJ5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5337NC7BwitrtbkVSQHWf3Q1xOdshAEghK4X5bZAGhpKISQwVUvd 6Qi0EuDv3wSm7IRTfkHNzBD8PoCwe4o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw0oEZEMvHnDbJvrq/Z0ozl4INEMZz4jJLQw0ugkqUTeVByHYJCUg1HzvWvd19cPCfI0yJOSg== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6a09:: with SMTP id m9mr5650664pgu.269.1630027059862; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 18:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-92-233.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.92.233]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d15sm4208881pfd.115.2021.08.26.18.17.38 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Aug 2021 18:17:39 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <0c369b25-aedd-1fdf-4813-503f27e42c7c@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273109 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 26.08.2021 20:59, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Many >> don't use mail at all for development, and all they're used to is the >> GitLab/Hub way of doing it. > > Email is used by virtually everyone (for example, to receive notifications about > others' actions or messages), what's "unusual" for many is sending patches over > email. Or inlining them in comments/messages. > I'm not sure this is true. I think virtually all developers are forced to suffer email, but a gorwing number don't use it. Often, all the discussions, notifications, comments etc are actually consumed via a mobile 'app'. For these users, logging into their inbox is frustrating and inconvenient because their inbox is full of pointless and old messages/notifications/alerts they have already seen/received via other channels. For these users, the primary reason they have an email address is to have something to put into the 'login' box for web services they use. Telling these users to use email to submit a patch is very similar to me being told when I started using email that I had to send in a hard copy via snail mail. I love an email interface. Then again, I still miss newsgroups. I hate web based 'groups' and avoid slack/discord whenever possible. However, I'm an old white guy in his 60s and not representative of Emacs' future even though I hope I still have some positive contributions to make. We do need to look at how to support more modern/current engagement models, but perhaps not at the expense of old proven ones. We need a more flexible engagement model rather than replacement of the existing one.