From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:11:30 +0000 Message-ID: <874kaxaj59.fsf@posteo.net> References: <9471c28f-8eae-b555-ee86-9fffd6229937@yandex.ru> <87r1e690n8.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <9d5a2f83-d564-22e1-0cbd-df760044528f@yandex.ru> <837dfyyxyl.fsf@gnu.org> <8b4cf399-d1ca-8669-2a78-06813100b987@yandex.ru> <29c12300-db02-2770-e3f6-593998ea98fc@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6134"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Yuan Fu , Daniel Fleischer , Richard Stallman , Stefan Kangas , Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , John Yates To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 06 16:12:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNFML-0001Qg-HY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:12:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNFMK-00039J-C7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 10:12:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42704) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNFLW-0002T0-1g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 10:11:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:54741) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNFLT-0000DV-7E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 10:11:37 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4110A24002C for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2021 16:11:33 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1630937493; bh=aLl6pjFInqS2ZVKh6omaiL64Ldbc+/Lh1Y9ILn4W6Mk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=Kv3FGBMoXKfviuxlVEhiVSMFg8z5DbXYiS+a+AcS4c1oGAxTtaPK0Ex31JtxCh0mm Md1e3ua3b4loZdDQUaD7jGUTSzH9UdRkV92lP3HOjlJOZEfofYahwPAxccCUzYVPg8 Hc/3qVjUAWT95mtXZSIvKsj2RB3fPlATTbHSK6r0KCnV+htNJR46pKosOp8bFuVzDF 4YtiOVojgoC1UQyuYeYlagZN+rdDmrEetEyYitn+NT/BpyJNz+xymYqc9jWfPjwPS7 QqgSfYzOCgMPJzT8gGJ1fpil4p31RTwY/3s44y3bb0czl0QjK2E2oVXEXn3t5H55Eq bGadE9vvY/TQw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4H39LW2Dqmz9rxB; Mon, 6 Sep 2021 16:11:31 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (Arthur Miller's message of "Mon, 06 Sep 2021 15:52:42 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274125 Archived-At: Arthur Miller writes: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> On 06.09.2021 08:04, Arthur Miller wrote: >> >>>>> Different or alternative as Tim proposed goes for anything:). >>>> >>>> But it's not "Different", it's rather "Familiar", as far as new users are >>>> concerned. >>> That is a different meaning to "different" indeed :). You are interpretting >>> "different" as not-familiar or unkown, why I was thinking of "different" as of >>> just somethin else. >> >> I'm just looking at the profiles as something for the new users. So if we're >> picking names, tailoring them to the news user seems advantageous. >> >>> Maybe it is best just to smash together something and present it rather than >>> trying people to agree to what is to be done? Like vim-people did with evil? >> >> Sure. Please don't let me stop anyone from experimenting and creating whatever >> number of different profiles. >> >> It's better we start this process, rather than get bogged down here arguing >> about particulars. >> >>> A diffent profile could be just a bunch of settings in a file. Why not just take >>> a so called contermporary setup and put it in a init file, and add a customize >>> variable to let people choose it? Could that work? >> >> I was thinking themes can be a good vehicle because someone can both enable and >> disable a theme (if they find it doesn't suit their preference) without >> restarting Emacs. > > That is true, but same can be done with a toggle button in customize? > I remember when Stefan M. proposed to use themes. Themes are just lisp, > so they can contain any lisp code, but how will it work with visual themes? There > can be only one theme loaded at time, right? No, you can load more than one "theme" at a time, it just usually doesn't make any sense for visual themes. But I agree, it might be confusing. There was some talk about "profiles", but I am not sure if the idea is to reuse the theme system or create something new. From what I have been experimenting with antinews themes (ie. revert all changes since Emacs XY), it requires a minor mode to be activated anyway, so it might also make sense to just provide a minor mode instead of a theme. >> But, again, let us not have this preconception stop anyone from experimenting. > > Indeed. > > By the way, how much work would it be to switch C-x and M-x prefixes to C-space and > M-space respectively. That way someone could rebind keys to resemble more of > "modern" key usage (C-o, C-x, C-v etc ). C-z would need rework in terminal. But > generally, if a prefix can be remaped automatically, it would be an easy thing to > start with? I think directly switching might be difficult, because a lot of people hard-code C-x into keymaps, even without using kbd. -- Philip Kaludercic