From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2022 15:53:47 +0800 Message-ID: <874k0wucxg.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87leuca7v7.fsf@disroot.org> <87czfopmsd.fsf@gnu.org> <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <87k09ttiad.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czflas36.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28261"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Tim Cross , Alan Mackenzie , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 07 09:56:39 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nyU4t-000780-LU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 09:56:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34668 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyU4r-0005TO-Nv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 03:56:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35672) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyU2N-0004IW-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 03:54:03 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic301-30.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.199]:40615) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyU2L-0000nf-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 03:54:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1654588438; bh=Th8f+822w4o83Nuq2Gr0ATHG0Q6tmzomzj9h8BPRnH8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=H+pWRUDxVAs+yMDtWDJBPEOqmTp/J7BgUrFQPGssK4UchSiEk2OY3IoOOwNlokvz4NVikeEs1G7vxXZT2czet75x1agCzyQBo4SKqu6UfRCKE4PMyo1SADyW4YG9kasEstTcRdWtNmKKX4A7cWOOXwU6DccpxcCV52AF9pVgbM9KbBp8oKXlREIEB9JsmJFLo+Y68I5JkUg5ontiWV2U+uazOGiYBoWKO2bgWj/pwySSdtigmJbdxFiS6bWvpNFCRMaUuZOUTIP5C4zN13U8Aa1abZjOInGfW0euFQixtdVSmt8hTUVGmgOwjVZ1kFFO9JiCsWfvXWP32KOSago1Lg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1654588438; bh=hRo5PcqKO5+ncwmpMns34cD3MtqwWAYoggqpuVuKXdY=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=olZFdS4psZfWKlHMdGebLjyPFAEM8w8YZz1/TkP+8H98mCt01GtrPvd1mbzvP2TPgKecP9xMiEY3uXbTBA5Fg+zQCMbeXnc+ty1ZonzSJzXw33i8eCAtawqRCthhUCc6uU4kT2vc6Rnh+8rYGbx/q6QO2rND23j/vfiVBcn9OPGs9yHpJtKXIB3P/69d8XTY1QrLONfbefzV3OV39uaIjBIpSSa4ZNKxOpcGWcIHd0z9F8+vXmpvRwwb5e86uenviBG6jRw83jP0cSey8qpQwkQMkMu7/rwROjm1l7kLFGPr09P5Vso5vUZhO017Xxp7n/qrG/a66gmNE6LHg9kKpQ== X-YMail-OSG: SDYZGNMVM1kgyKYOpkOVM4RGlpECAxnQw23QddMzoeAm9.yJ_kIyhoA6KfZud4X 5h.CqON8p0mar7Fulp6Gvfdl_SD6Y5JWyi80_CD3GWzhRmlExqke8mZSTVTJK0p4ZfXv_h_ksB71 jwNLuU7f9xU9_4eLjJu6Tpq_yVnjLNbOKkOdG.RPUJ4G4uP0H0U22bP51nQzoIFNIHBqeusd0lz3 ZLzOGhRU6EiPsQUTJ.xnxxoJ1K6RA4_NVMxgt2CenmroG_nE3_R.JJKbT5T22xXQNgQLiSj_RckL MHbGRYcA0V7NUoBhPLxVlCD8uP7Qq9SvV3xeYp_tarub1R8FmD33rHXUEjN6h1VeagWDRJCWttIs kuChEfV8Gm2y55crxEDXeTE8g7wKAokqv9VFnobdefLH__HMj41T7fcLuOVdPyGsPaP91VMbJhhb AA1kgkriqFslw7YoGILzG_X2FhjPh8cEdFfnbAbQErXvPMoq2SV6CQVrqe2d7mPbaDycqwMVPBb0 JNkEkkaUzGyvNFmemP0YQLgVukBrnp6Bu.YgWbi_jUzqBAvG22MdpF2ihtwy_72jQxIkpQ3iiPCa lhLulCwVFyF9gXw5NgOv_9u6y7I49Ut.x8sgKE24VA113uMPaMIf9.SO2ml57tPMJOgm5y2gEmGR Vg6p4c7tzBIGD3bLhMwSjDfPfyBA3ifabfHroXeqlU88xdKqtyNvSkuxU4Q77xQmd1Bnn8gZmoJ2 km13.rJVzx4z_xt7qA1LRZ72KGdacKWz4ZQSHbd13KVr_IG2AU7EM.2Re4ZTfVrWoKXVIbgflUU_ wEsL54nwx91knNO5PtgthzqnUkedM3qca5iUbOdChL X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2022 07:53:58 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-5f7658c994-zbd6m (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 1879bda4b6b2c28a8d5241a82e0a34e4; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 07:53:52 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87czflas36.fsf@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec"'s message of "Tue, 07 Jun 2022 08:46:37 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20280 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.199; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic301-30.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290832 Archived-At: K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec writes: > This thread has been a bit disheartening to read from the sidelines; as > much as I empathize with wanting to keep Emacs accessible by avoiding > code bloat and keeping cognitive load low, it is hard to know what to > reply to statements such as this one. > > No one has ever had to "go through the entire Org manual in order to > write and edit README files". Just like no one has ever had to read the > Emacs manual cover-to-cover in order to do anything with it (they _can_, > of course, but they don't _have to_). So what was the purpose of the following statement? >> Spend the time to go through the key bindings listed in the org >> manual > I don't see how enabling these section-folding and navigation features > could hurt the accessibility of package READMEs written in a structured > format. Alan rightly points out that Org overreaches with unhelpful key > bindings, and the benchmarks posted earlier show that loading Org > wholesale for displaying READMEs would be irksome; to me that merely > suggests that whatever subset of Org features we find relevant for > _consulting_ READMEs should be better modularized. IMO, packages should provide a plain text README, alongside a rich text version in a relatively standard format like HTML. By using HTML, it becomes readable not only in Emacs, but also any other program that understands HTML. HTML is also understood by many more people than Org mode. It's okay for package maintainers to write their documentation using Org, and then to export it to HTML. But please don't insist that all documentation be written using Org mode, or that it's okay for packages to only provide documentation in that format.