From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:21:37 -0400 Message-ID: <874k0vdqam.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <87leuca7v7.fsf@disroot.org> <87czfopmsd.fsf@gnu.org> <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15910"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Po Lu , Michael Albinus , Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas , Akib Azmain Turja , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 08 19:23:20 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nyzOp-0003ut-TF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 19:23:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57586 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyzOo-00087F-El for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:23:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44086) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyzNM-0006sn-7g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:21:48 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0011.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.11]:59413 helo=relay3.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyzNK-00057I-5x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 13:21:47 -0400 Original-Received: from omf09.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CD76067F; Wed, 8 Jun 2022 17:21:43 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf09.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BEC7820028; Wed, 8 Jun 2022 17:21:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Sun, 05 Jun 2022 12:26:44 +0200") X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout07 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BEC7820028 X-Stat-Signature: jf3fpor3ze7hggffbu14e1zd9cknqc84 X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX1/lD+0vh4jldySgPN5+sLHWNe/0xzgSD7A= X-HE-Tag: 1654708898-561943 Received-SPF: none client-ip=216.40.44.11; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=relay3.hostedemail.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FORGED_SPF_HELO=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290950 Archived-At: Tassilo Horn writes: > Po Lu writes: > >>>>> I think we should actively encourage using it for most types of >>>>> documentation, certainly for README type files. >>>> >>>> I disagree entirely with you. Org mode is highly complicated, >>>> obscure (I've never managed to get a feel for what it does), and >>>> difficult to learn (I've never managed it). A text file is far >>>> easier to read for those not familiar with org. We're talking about >>>> READMEs here. They're typically 20 to 100 lines long. A text file >>>> is ideal for these. >>> >>> 1+. README is a text file which is consulted in order to get >>> information about the related software. There's no rule to visit it >>> by Emacs only. > > People nowadays write README.org and README.md files instead of > plain-text READMEs because the packages' repositories are hosted on some > forge (sr.ht, github, gitlab, gitea, whatever) which supports rendering > those formats in a nice way. So the choice of format is natural for > package authors. And they frequently contain markup like headings, > bullet lists, bold, italics, and code snippets which simply look much > better than their text-only alternative (even in their > editing/non-rendered versions). I personally don't think that org is nice, or natural. Those are subjective statements. Relying on the fact that lots of people use org and formatted READMEs on github and such is not a justification either; lots and lots of people use windows... Making Emacs look like whatever happens to be popular shouldn't be done at the expense of existing users. Org is popular, yes, but Emacs shouldn't be a popularity contest. The fact that there are people, like me, asking to be able to read a text file as a text file should be respected. I would be fine with being able to: (setq packages-org-to-text t) Or similar, and never have to to be confronted with ellipses and foreign (to me) key-bindings when I'm trying to read a few lines of text. Even better, if I had a simple: (org-disable-org-mode t) >From then on I won't have to worry about being forced to read plain text through a reincarnated implementation of "hypertext" from the 80s. First do no harm. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"