From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Android port of Emacs Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2023 19:29:46 +0800 Message-ID: <874jmm4klx.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <83edmask4z.fsf@gnu.org> <5c02371a-3c42-de66-70b7-4ed0d88cc3fa@gutov.dev> <87cz1td0ku.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cz1ta5fr.fsf@telefonica.net> <87edm645yy.fsf@yahoo.com> <878rc95a1t.fsf@telefonica.net> <87r0q1vwtl.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jmx55ek.fsf@telefonica.net> <87mt0owgjf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zg4o47vi.fsf@telefonica.net> <87ilbc9oh6.fsf@yahoo.com> <86zg4eeh0z.fsf@aarsen.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25309"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 02 13:30:54 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvI5-0006Oa-KI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 13:30:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvHF-0003nF-SN; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:30:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvHD-0003mW-Fx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:29:59 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.45]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvHB-0004GB-7J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:29:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1688297394; bh=oF+hwV3EEOHz5HI3ipa9TkVbcW37WOGIYqTOAsn7LPc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Udzp2xQKG/xpQlaTJGwz/J2UVqYFAq8HEyACiSdb6UHhRUPA69VOYkPtSfjp96OakEr95h6L1TyNR89ZBJSLjN6oUhIgl+QZ+9AXytrsenGG6kEE4Yr+9C9tVlWiUWjkQXAR15j7kXjuSQP/ALXtkH681VWPr0ztO8Xi4ppeRqW0NPZDxPcHDsYZLdYIkFA4yGMw467xWesUoSngtYemqU7CRVAa4Z49dq5rJiI+PHdgB/IC+ZRdHV+SjlDl32NN+xRiHoNOsHH6FGM67k/4gVYsTRZcPVU1trwZ4IGC+JB+plBM0uXGIqKxVZxTxI4Tzxxerodf9MIpC5R6d/fllg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1688297394; bh=ImFrODwjWojQNDEGuo9nJaMV+YGM1ZKdV4KIV4THGvS=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=IgfEJQLfNWfJKeqqtmWuSTuS8Ncs5ub+YpO1HeCDHoid7GdFQtg45+/7YRe77vs/v9AbylYC/+u6NJPPFnsG3pfUiyK9wTVsezBJr10gFqhjggeAZ9KU/65I9tl9bRN8A94D/yoAaqTgOa4+i3ad/RhDJzs5qNFk8RIXhzJO4G0FAlnX2wGlqZgVBiMTVLt1GHLQF+bxU9DAB2JERE/H1HMEMBcVtNtUOJpCIRjlyWXKow3r9kvtVG9VAm7+h/Exz+WfhYI3JsTLMKVqhWAhWLf/R1UMJQnGdi5ajziz7gGfZmZknJfyFnDFF6he8ce6o7Jh/xlKkbAIbehcyJHakw== X-YMail-OSG: B1jkokcVM1nQFZQmi8tFoAl8l6ws28rbot.JM3Y9e8cSvfigOgLBQm87SEJws43 EdTQZEfx97aDB1_uWk3eaxZj9_OiCVhN_2RsBmqrIHIhMmKXYGR.JezJroxY33IltlDO28sB1Tqt Uu_iwTpqIuuN4U4nqLv.FahE6eJ6meBjg7WRMK7e2Qcgto_z5dfX9GT2tYIs0BG_E0wR6spuiLKo XH7_1z1rFBLSPtbcikS4_CFVtA5st.AVgcEiSP15InX0CdibQKt3D4ZA6PZ7H88UD40uct31vzG6 50OywZGKoaLBwYkX.R05oVztDBalAiELwQoPWfCteoJdfoguYmLsvMMQ8o5ihltNYF3tlUhXoejj GPw8CUEQzAbC1QLg_EzX8dnOCqT8RL._NamjGehevgFCXxABldvwk6121_iXgXs9X9LpyeIMBVRu zuLluHRYCIh4HSB2Me1LG0r_r5uXUlTmAfcO0xkRS720vNLklGWaafubi2mQ6CPMO_IDijmZDUxR 8I1w29nJ6pXwQslxGUWzcH1LTSccgoAbrwP9_mXweu6RDLbpqdH23m3cFW2dSNEviSz0CAre1Qi8 NILlIb35JrSVmYGn_ebeoZtKELrLydHt1UJHkwIaShCyJvPGI91ehXUG4SpyX.E_x69gLQy60usW j8DHuQTpuxrvTkteoylGRdiZJMg0XoFm_ZBig4ebUEh2ntO9XWyF1HFWHj4h.5IYIrHuPcBtxw8E Bs9iB1TJvhtZ0muKL3WUo96XBzQny4T7Y.v9nCJ.RPDuvLoXbDYNpBJGdngwdPLCnXi4keDOVXpY yG5M4NSfKtp_Hn3gkcAzoiB4oaqivDpoycfD71clhx X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: e32e1466-685b-458d-b263-e679d5710fb1 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:29:54 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-67fd64777-lqw65 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 655e7f8a355da569033a02c3eb88909b; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 11:29:50 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86zg4eeh0z.fsf@aarsen.me> ("Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sun, 02 Jul 2023 11:31:30 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21612 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.45; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307354 Archived-At: Arsen Arsenovi=C4=87 writes: > To back Po up here, the port is usable with software keyboards too IMO. > Perhaps the only thing that's missing is an (optional) way to input > modifiers without needing keyboards to support them directly, similar to > Termux IMHO, it's not Emacs's job to, in essence, provide another virtual keyboard in addition to what the user has already installed. People who need these modifier keys can use any of the software keyboards that provide options to display them: AnySoftKeyboard, Hackers Keyboard, et cetera. > , and to bring up the keyboard at any point, even when in RO text. > It is possible that these features exist and that I missed them, though. This exists, see the option `touch-screen-display-keyboard'. > It was immediately clear to me, however, that there won't be much direct > translation from a desktop workflow to Android, so I skipped directly to > tweaking various GUI elements, which might be why I can't sympathize > with the usability assessment some people had. This will be some work > for users and developers of Emacs and packages for Emacs in the long > run, to provide a more pointer-approachable UI, however. Yes, I strongly recommend that people using the Android port without a mouse or keyboard refrain from hiding any of the display elements that are often disabled , especially the menu bar. > I think that, in general, this port shows Emacs as an organizer and note > taker more than as a programming tool, so the lowered accessibility to > advanced text entry shouldn't be too grave, though both are possible, > especially with a hardware keyboard. Well, I've been using Emacs as both a note taking tool, and as a mail and news reader. The nature of my work means that responding to mail naturally requires some programming, so to each his own ;-) > What's also missing is the Info viewer reflowing to fill the screen, but > this is a fault in the Info format rather than Emacs. This has been the > case for a long time but the form-factor on Android is somewhat novel, > so it was never that noticeable. Perhaps adjusting the fill column while building documentation for packaging on Android would be a suitable temporary solution for this. However, I'd really like to see a form of word wrapping that does not take new line characters into account at all, allowing filled text to be refilled to fit windows at redisplay time. I plan to investigate implementing this some time. > I've written some code already that uses the Widget library to get a > competent workflow for note-taking and capturing (though I've not > completed this yet), and from my testing, the port (even as it was some > months ago) can be used quite competently. > > Overall, I think that the port shows great potential, and can't > sympathize with the reasons for its omission, especially for a system > which isn't always nonfree, as Po seems to be willing to maintain it > long-term. Thanks for your input.