From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2024 14:56:14 +0200 Message-ID: <874j7zf7rl.fsf@web.de> References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <871q33rj7v.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87r0b3p7wq.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29382"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 05 14:57:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1saxHG-0007TG-Da for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 14:57:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1saxGK-0006FF-Mt; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 08:56:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1saxGI-00066Z-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 08:56:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1saxGE-0007Jo-Rx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 08:56:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1722862577; x=1723467377; i=arne_bab@web.de; bh=MJN24McYcTdKfMj1qiOkjsiWhykqyTNKxGTw2QlceLU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=gyVxjUtJnjgDkJ9tho/o7sjnxMVFuyiFjdDjKxtNjI8YzLUax48kXuYHZRtjaP06 /NRhN+bI5f09PmY98vwVg/bvV8s533e7P+QJimiOOilkMklINA1a2i4eB6SFYuGlc XD3G5rUaJKmM/I/v6oGsew3gF/U9c5pzHGntcI1qX71IosS6bhJ9BNAE41nq2jh3q 4jMDrTCYlSg0xPvmD3rcU4nH7lPOajOfODpu0OBaVPKUJIilGG9uPM0/s/fSfmyQ7 Dje7WzXjqh6nezYKVX5Gp+HO5jySM2vEUY+X8NjAtJlAp2nmjpUmLZPVg8I/44AUV 3F9RZZYhnflvgTCr4g== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([80.136.23.189]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N5CUp-1sBlIK34vV-00rqGr; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 14:56:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87r0b3p7wq.fsf@dataswamp.org> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Mon, 05 Aug 2024 12:43:01 +0200") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:U55ePZSxqB9UfFGN2sLRm/JO8cbJj75f3h3hCw6g1Y4W7ZuwHUs /rrWV2ROq3sIKT6WFJT7tAQcNfrflc/+dZWuIVr5chuqNsvBic3SJCW9xaPN0OAyZvC57DM Oi4VtdUWgXVbjXt3Bj8Fgfi0TvEd6WwCqzBA0EKW+l/gg2zMSExHrecbkjQEdTWUB6CdIQv mWscpQ1Ijm56Woyv942Yg== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:vnffUFOzcM8=;sXP5yUMHzWg1YzIoHUxTB3A/ekt MUlUdA4H7wGWwwuFo27hJJM/aarp/zOnhZLhww5C06DT7Wzx2uQOq+rcDwXobs1PY+AV4Jso5 bCSs9gLqkZjWTJx7rZhlMwIZQ/9OQ5e4hRcp8sjwXSfGqlgFNyVx5oE5s59+fBv8tgU39SHlI c/zN2ExOx3bvr3v07t0SL4mYBQl4w7zKnWaevHy8a5cmac4gVs78rjupa0WZ4D9JNU8043MVz 2qa+mCmaGtlStX1h3kQZoCsLgT/kghanPm5f2OwBxElRs9oGl4MNNTXoRhSHKxVLIfpKeieTP zDqzAy9azDdfwbGZ8pXS/de4OAQjnTif++mjgNYKHaatjJ39ZTmXcdmnUgh0toAGinSuaHCV5 YGKDIze7P4oxE9GC8fO07aJMWscXHiBkiwIJPRAq9bHwcYwEx+/US3wkdFztZsyTCT+a8n4ya BhgaM77n+F3BAbBP5NBL8FL0PiW1NiEy1zzQMYVFkf6yjDqw+LtYnUsDpCOL3EMnyoNDpDdBF 793VsR41eMX8dRzt8J+XWMUcDJMqkiwolW0e8ygEMoBRW1eO7mbW5CuggmShjPRx2zhexVV3Z ciXAhJ/9C8neo293wyV+Vr6wGYOp0+h+IM+gHzTsEnvtOnP9aZxXTui3X1qUpIZyAU9iIUUNE r4m/jP4s+b1l6OWcRcfExonSw2n/vlwGFUum6c1cKtt8xj98wjUnlHu+Kt8aqH8TSdcD8kLCD OfYyyI+1Y2PXBfWxtIrhvQXeyeGw8chWlcu8o13YV7vnJwwXSvPDIiv/qJWviMDrhaJ6X50B Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.11; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322367 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Emanuel Berg writes: > Christopher Dimech wrote: >> The best education one can get today is by self discovery. I tried that while at school. Luckily my teachers trusted my skills enough to let me step out of chemistry class for half a year and learn by myself. And prove my knowledge afterwards. My takeaway was: I could learn Chemistry myself. It worked. But it took three times as much time as learning it in school. So, having actual, tested experience with both styles of learning, I disagree. As long as your teachers are somewhat competent, learning in school is far more efficient than learning only by self discovery. And if you take it seriously, you develop deeper understanding than when you only do self discovery (and take that as seriously). >>> Okay, then everyone should know this is a controversial >>> thing to say. No one, or very few, would recommend Emacs >>> Lisp as an alternative to Python 2024. Having gone from Python to Guile Scheme around 2013, I also disagree =E2=98= =BA But having said that: I do consider indentation style code more readable than using mostly parentheses. After reading people say things like =C2=ABallows people to see code how Lispers perceive it. Its structure becomes apparent.=C2=BB, =C2=ABit makes Scheme way more =E2=80=9Capproachable=E2=80=9D=C2=BB, and =C2=ABI have actually found it insanely useful to getting stuff done=C2=BB, I think I have a point. > I don't know the details of the history but I doubt it > happened that way. There is a thread of thoughts by Beka Valentine from just these days about how hackers tend to mix up who got popular with who is better, because they don=E2=80=99t like to accept that languages usually do not grow widespread by Logical Truth. I suggest reading that, before continuing this discussion. https://rollenspiel.social/@beka_valentine@kolektiva.social/112905007985491= 839 Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmawy+8QHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD61cCEADU/ShXIgTfLfaM8gCakemadnp5dsZ5C2/e d/tnCFBySGg95gy2d3Lj7A3hfBS7dDx7Mp3/5iDfXAf/7awHy00JpCxguVH59qTe 80n1gL5vx4kKxOQvJWECQdHLzZgFstJy8kI9RdCXUULFz0LMi8HnJgCRFP+25INt 4sEMWHJUU3BiZHWCJh1cX+6/kOiF4I+f2VySPw1TJPJZw6QXpm7ZFX2Sp5sop87Z D/BoYiyZRIvIPbLE4jd2zlOvoEKXce8kZkfISGX60hZpM/ujriISq7orH0oFvkeD eBafU46Qaf81FbqX75s7F5wfvRyMj6xABieurFTstIjHjoWYmO0GIlZxd5P/eu0s ux977q6XqYpuzu7SwWLwHnNcJRxVagz5fEgdUQG5cWvz/llhP233UV7gP1qUKaAL LWB9Ot/Xv5AXeYjlkv8yxo75Aegc0pV7BHEe3wYFwTrxM7Kr9dVB5ByA1lYwYpBu ZDeXMFgRA25hfo2wBIRbC4YqXdQGHG6q9xCstnZihmC2+QWOK1PX7b1NRDRqYp9e mj3sD93DJfesCSYmR8amk74xAeBpAYU+j7b9DQxQA0Cx4pqBohtieQjKjy21cZRt kvKSeaZCqVwiin/+JnXLyunUgs34H7gETb7cVW/usVsOM2+w9G7nzJNHn5RmRwhZ FeoGSpPqGYjEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmawy/EQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSK+IBACL0RuX2qIe+7iesJwa1thl0CHh lFmXZ2ymYTRvtvBBFbs7SnTUCPvapVSgle6ecP8uxOU3fcsOAqM6EMmfKiMV27gw emdkbuROuV+djO54IQX9LcfIFzZXBk/yi+G04hMTtaAH/yj8avfb7shn/nmJ1Upl JFvgTyMAX9QC94QYFw== =rg/X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--