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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs and Gnome Canvas
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:48:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8739vkbpq5.fsf@telefonica.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 83pqyofzdg.fsf@gnu.org

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> I know from the start that the stuff I'll use *if* the plan goes
>> ahead is not acceptable for key Emacs developers
>
> Why the defeatism?

I would use Qt, hence C++, not being shy about using advanced language
features if necessary. That is for getting a working system as soon as
possible.

[snip]

>> Anyways, I'm not interested on learning about the current display
>> engine.
>
> How you will be able to implement a new display engine without at
> least some familiarity with what the current one does?

I expect that if the internal layout of the data to be displayed is
clear enough, that is sufficient for the display engine writer. I mean,
knowing "this represents a text property" is what you need. Knowing how
the current display engine deals with it shouldn't be necessary. I'm
sure there is a lot of wisdom on the current display system wrt dealing
with difficulties of representing Emacs' data on a screen, but I suspect
that learn-by-doing is faster than stopping everything while one studies
the details of the current implementation and elaborated plans. I have a
tendency to analysis-paralysis and that approach won't work for me on
hobby projects :-)

>> I'm more interested on a simpler approach: here is the data, display
>> it.
>
> This isn't Emacs.  You are describing Gnuplot.  The most important
> problem a display engine needs to solve is: here's the new data and
> the old display, now update the display.  And the data is not all
> given in one place.

That's implicit in the above. The "data" contains info about what
changed.

>> The only thing I really fear is finding that other parts of Emacs
>> (high-level event handling or content change management, for
>> instance) are tightly coupled with the current display engine.
>
> What do you mean by ``tightly coupled''?  The current display stops if
> input becomes available -- is that tight enough?

No, that's fine because the low-level input handling will be part of the
new system. By "tightly coupled" I mean there are blurred areas where it
is hard to say if they belong to the display engine or to other
system. Ideally, if Emacs were well modularized, adding a new display
engine wouldn't require any modifications to other areas.

> In general, if you make all kinds of assumptions that would break your
> approach, I'd suggest to publish those assumptions -- that's the
> fastest way to validating them, short of studying the code yourself.

That's a good idea.




  reply	other threads:[~2010-07-15 17:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-07-13 19:02 Emacs, QT and Cairo Was: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Stephen Eilert
2010-07-13 19:29 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 19:51   ` Chad Brown
2010-07-13 20:48 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-13 22:30   ` Emacs, QT and Cairo Chad Brown
2010-07-14  1:39     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-14  2:32       ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-14  7:29     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-14 18:37       ` Chad Brown
2010-07-14 20:45         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-14 21:24           ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15  6:55             ` Emacs and Gnome Canvas (was: Emacs, QT and Cairo) Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15  7:46               ` Emacs and Gnome Canvas Jan Djärv
2010-07-15  7:53                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15  8:36                   ` joakim
2010-07-15  8:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15  8:50                     ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15  8:38                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15  8:48                   ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15  8:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15  9:29                       ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15 10:24                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 10:54                           ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15 12:27                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 14:18                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15 15:14                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16  6:33                                   ` Miles Bader
2010-07-15 16:00                                 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-15 16:27                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15 17:06                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 17:48                                       ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2010-07-15 18:06                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 21:27                                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16  8:17                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 14:24                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 15:19                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 16:07                                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 18:43                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 21:21                                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 23:44                                                         ` Chad Brown
2010-07-17  0:08                                                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-17  7:57                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17  8:34                                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-17  9:10                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17  9:40                                                                   ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-17 10:23                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17 13:49                                                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-17  7:27                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17 13:42                                                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-17 15:27                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17 21:53                                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-18  1:42                                                               ` Miles Bader
2010-07-18  2:45                                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-18  8:06                                                                   ` Chad Brown
2010-07-18 14:43                                                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-21  8:34                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-22 14:26                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-15 17:22                                     ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-15 18:02                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15 22:10                                         ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-16  7:52                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16  2:14                                   ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-16  7:33                                     ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-16  9:52                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 10:15                                         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-16 10:39                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 12:42                                             ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-17  3:50                                               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  8:33                                                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-17  8:38                                                   ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  9:18                                                     ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-17  9:25                                                       ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17 10:26                                                         ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-18  3:51                                                           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-18  7:10                                                             ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-18  7:45                                                               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-18  9:06                                                                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-19  0:50                                                                   ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  1:00                                             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  1:40                                               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  8:04                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17  8:25                                                 ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-16 12:21                                         ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-16 10:01                                       ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-16 12:26                                         ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-16 14:05                                           ` Davis Herring
2010-07-16 17:38                                             ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-17  1:12                                               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  7:14                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17  7:31                                                   ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-17  8:12                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-17  8:32                                                       ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-15 14:24                               ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15 14:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 15:16                                   ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15 15:20                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 17:14                                       ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15  9:20               ` Andy Wingo
2010-07-15 18:41               ` Emacs and Gnome Canvas (was: Emacs, QT and Cairo) Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2010-07-15 21:51                 ` Emacs and Gnome Canvas Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15 22:21                   ` Bruce Stephens
2010-07-27 21:24     ` Emacs, QT and Cairo Stefan Monnier
2010-07-27 21:36       ` Chad Brown
2010-07-28  3:05         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-14  8:59 ` Emacs, QT and Cairo Was: Re: Efforts to attract more users? YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-07-14  9:41   ` Emacs, QT and Cairo David Engster
2010-07-14  9:56     ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-14 13:50     ` Drew Adams
2010-07-14 14:14       ` David Engster
2010-07-14 14:28         ` joakim
2010-07-14 15:41   ` Emacs, QT and Cairo Was: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Chong Yidong
2010-07-14 16:17     ` joakim
2010-07-14 18:04       ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-15 23:15 ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-07-16  7:41   ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-16 10:24     ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-07-16 12:36       ` Jan Djärv
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-07-17 19:02 Emacs and Gnome Canvas grischka

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