From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nix Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:52:20 +0000 Message-ID: <8739amb3rf.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328658750 30144 80.91.229.3 (7 Feb 2012 23:52:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 23:52:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'egnarts-ms' , Drew Adams , Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 00:52:29 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruupp-0002GE-An for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 00:52:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56105 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruupo-0001UB-Q5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:52:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38112) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruupl-0001Tu-Tx for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:52:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruupk-0002ms-Sr for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:52:25 -0500 Original-Received: from icebox.esperi.org.uk ([81.187.191.129]:39321 helo=mail.esperi.org.uk) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruupk-0002mN-22 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:52:24 -0500 Original-Received: from esperi.org.uk (nix@spindle.srvr.nix [192.168.14.15]) by mail.esperi.org.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q17NqKg1001524; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 23:52:20 GMT Original-Received: (from nix@localhost) by esperi.org.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q17NqKNp024129; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 23:52:20 GMT Emacs: ballast for RAM. In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:48:05 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: spindle 1290; Body=4 Fuz1=4 Fuz2=4 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 81.187.191.129 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148332 Archived-At: On 7 Feb 2012, Stefan Monnier said: >> I've never understood what's wrong with including cl.el, nor why the > > The main issue is namespace. If someone goes through the code to rename > it all to "cl-*", then we won't need to avoid using it. Aha. I'd agree with *that*: it's always been hellishly unclear which things are in cl or not. Its intention to sort of add to the Emacs Lisp core with things with very similar names was perhaps praiseworthy, but once those things started to move *into* the non-cl.el core, often with subtly different semantics, it just got fearfully confusing. For compatibility reasons I suspect we need to put the renamed versions in something new ('cl-dumped', say, or 'cl-clean'), and have the old cl.el versions become defaliases to them. (The Emacs core's uses of cl can be fixed up, but cl is widely used in third-party modules, so we can't just drop those names.) I can easily do that this weekend. -- NULL && (void)