From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.comp.gcc.devel,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: clang and FSF's strategy Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:26:22 +0100 Message-ID: <8738kcccbl.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20140121201949.21DE1380522@snark.thyrsus.com> <8761pcq3pr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390663606 22424 80.91.229.3 (25 Jan 2014 15:26:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: gcc@gcc.gnu.org Original-X-From: gcc-return-181738-gcc=m.gmane.org@gcc.gnu.org Sat Jan 25 16:26:54 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcc@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from server1.sourceware.org ([209.132.180.131] helo=sourceware.org) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W758H-0006wD-SM for gcc@plane.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:26:54 +0100 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gcc.gnu.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-post:list-help:sender:to :from:subject:date:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:cc; q=dns; s=default; b=SOP/03IFuxpIIcZtW+La9kP4Pu 5qX3r2p98vPMfWFYV9fp08n3MFiRWPwsjbQxHH38fbzZ0nLwaTEDu/BszInjY2/w dQaBH2zR1NdO1tiOxBwQOeUAKY5NoWTrvnOC30IfNwg81pEkxQlPqt9/E4gf/3ZU C/lUJpKhoxDjT8DJQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=gcc.gnu.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-post:list-help:sender:to :from:subject:date:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:cc; s=default; bh=Zq7H8o3PJCgas8iuqUpWs6IZYfM=; b= m42qp/gSTZhSshnmK1J107qYN+nu7rzhAzIZlhasnAtpu/IceAQ3DiJOmvgpKj7N sRvB3xWtAuLYf4jIL5lNRJ13dTw9v8j8DmVNc/zhnCWHS9ZXkESLZJ79gxbRUh4g b6TrlCrL4MDTEso/DjDi07Z0WSZVuSh8GRiyBQkPxJI= Original-Received: (qmail 9955 invoked by alias); 25 Jan 2014 15:26:48 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: Original-Sender: gcc-owner@gcc.gnu.org Original-Received: (qmail 9942 invoked by uid 89); 25 Jan 2014 15:26:47 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-HELO: plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org (HELO plane.gmane.org) (80.91.229.3) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPS; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:26:45 +0000 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W7584-0006ri-Ot for gcc@gcc.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:26:40 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f416b0.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.244.22.176]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:26:40 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f416b0.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:26:40 +0100 Original-Lines: 40 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-IsSubscribed: yes Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.gcc.devel:134182 gmane.emacs.devel:169060 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > esr@thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes: > >> David Kastrup's recent question on emacs-devel motivates me to bring >> up a larger related question I've been meaning to open for a while: >> Are the FSF's goals best served by continuing to technically restrict >> GCC? >> This is a question in which I have some positive stake. Yes, I >> continue to be opposed to the FSF's style of propaganda exactly >> because I think it hinders an end goal - a software ecosystem that is >> open-source and user-controlled - that I agree with and have worked >> hard to achieve. > > You are crossposting to two public project lists of the GNU project > with inflammatory language and mischaracterizations. You have been > involved with the GNU project long enough to be well aware that this > kind of crowbar approach does not lead to much more than headlines > about Free Software infighting. And just for the record, here are some of the headlines. I'm keeping the crosspost since the main issue started up on emacs-devel, and it mostly pertains to gcc-devel where some participants may be interested in using the opportunity to correct misconceptions in the discussion following the article (which could have been a lot worse I guess). With regard to the discussion on the mailing lists itself, I think that pretty much everything that's relevant to the big rhetorics has been said already. That does not mean that nothing remains to be done in the area of better integrating Emacs and GCC, but it does not appear like the main obstacles are of the kind that can be overcome by swashbuckling. -- David Kastrup