From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 21:17:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87388p6glt.fsf@engster.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <20141205175810.GD3120@thyrsus.com> <87lhmlncb1.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <20141205193643.GB5067@thyrsus.com> <87tx19rd1b.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20141205215138.GF7784@thyrsus.com> <54823617.4000406@cs.ucla.edu> <83k325195l.fsf@gnu.org> <5482D94B.2070102@cs.ucla.edu> <5484FF31.5010808@cs.ucla.edu> <5485FC59.5030700@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418069911 2046 80.91.229.3 (8 Dec 2014 20:18:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 20:18:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 08 21:18:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy4lB-0003Ay-FQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 21:18:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35954 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy4lA-0006ob-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 15:18:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy4l1-0006oE-GL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 15:18:17 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy4kv-0002OE-6L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 15:18:11 -0500 Original-Received: from randomsample.de ([5.45.97.173]:38749) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy4ku-0002Ky-Tw; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 15:18:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=MIQJgZgpisEAL2ETj8muKoDIRnu3iKgL1QzefwzXBkI=; b=ny177OZMhda044ikx/y2ouZk4tjtIgVR/KW4tIb15HgfiCCrm0KeBlb69Lz2BPwsLQY9XBuUjGYhO+Y216+UPPd83qfNZDPJBYZz/oYMrxuK5uF2Qwjo4fwaIixngClA; Original-Received: from ip4d154cb9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([77.21.76.185] helo=spaten) by randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy4kl-00056n-8A; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 21:17:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5485FC59.5030700@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:30:33 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.45.97.173 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179454 Archived-At: Paul Eggert writes: > On 12/07/2014 06:30 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> I think I understand why they don't want to fix the processing speed. >> But we should still push them to provide workarounds. "Separate >> compilation" would solve this problem > > It might, yes. But that sounds like more work than switching input > formats would be, if some other input format already has good support > for most of what we want. > >> Indeed the slowdown (factor 100 IIRC last time I measured it) is >> a serious problem. > > Absolutely. Texinfo's performance is a real turnoff for me, and it > can't be encouraging potential contributors. ~/git-2.2.0/Documentation> time asciidoc -b html user-manual.txt asciidoc -b html user-manual.txt 7.26s user 0.02s system 90% cpu 8.068 total That's for 4.5k lines. ~/emacs/doc/misc> time makeinfo --html gnus.texi makeinfo --html gnus.texi 2.00s user 0.04s system 85% cpu 2.385 total That's for 30k lines. Yes, that's texinfo4, of course, but I hear it still compiles. I doubt we will be happy with anything that's considerably slower than texinfo4, which means that whatever we might switch to, it better be written in something that's fast. That already rules out asciidoc and Org. -David