From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 17:08:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87387rvobr.fsf@engster.org> References: <83bnxuzyl4.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2i9ee8t.fsf@engster.org> <874n3ke1qn.fsf@engster.org> <87sir336qn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20140301215057.GA19461@thyrsus.com> <87fvn1y0vx.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fvn0senq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761nusb90.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87vbkovhh7.fsf@engster.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1420301364 31475 80.91.229.3 (3 Jan 2015 16:09:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 16:09:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 03 17:09:18 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7RGP-0001DB-AY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 17:09:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54664 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7RGO-0007EN-D4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 11:09:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56706) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7RGK-0007EG-Uh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 11:09:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7RGH-0004Qy-Ot for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 11:09:12 -0500 Original-Received: from randomsample.de ([5.45.97.173]:33975) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7RGH-0004PD-GU; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 11:09:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=o+suBnEps5o8RhtBpBPe0EcWtTgl6HJXkoq8GBi8ckI=; b=Q2iMEQt8O82MPOZplyJ45OwY/fdmLOYVH8wbcH2L6SLiAiscfkauA0vl4UNWnrcH4Q0gjuWu3dLJzUzz+RoyqRibn1K5h4ftiVk2/aaEgdbeMLNWihD3pMNcH5qFCTyA; Original-Received: from ip4d154cb9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([77.21.76.185] helo=spaten) by randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7RG9-0005vi-9V; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 17:09:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 03 Jan 2015 10:49:13 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.45.97.173 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180945 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > > My hope is that we can work out a kind of "detailed output" that is > > > enough for what Emacs wants, but not enough for misuse of GCC front ends. > > > Anyone can write a GCC plugin that simply outputs the AST in some > > form. > > We are not talking about the same thing. What I have in mind is to > output considerably LESS than the AST -- just enough to do the > completion and other operations that Emacs needs, and NO MORE. I understand that. What I'm saying is: For almost five years now (since gcc 4.5 introduced plugins), access to GCC's AST is wide open for everyone. However, in all that time (and to my knowledge) no one has used that to feed non-free backends, and that is in my opinion enough evidence that your worries are unfounded. They might have been valid in the past, but not since LLVM and clang have joined the scene. > To figure out just what Emacs needs, that's the task I am talking > about. If you want to support things like completions, refactoring, symbol searches, etc., we need full access to the AST from inside Emacs. > > > Instead, is there anyone here who would > > > like to work on this in detail? > > > I'm already working on it. > > Are you working on outputting just the data that Emacs needs for > completion? Completion is only the starting point. If that works, I hope more stuff will follow. In any case, I will need the full AST. If you are saying that you won't allow that, then this is a non-starter. Dealing with GCC's AST is hard enough already; if I have to additionally worry what information I'm allowed to feed to Emacs, than I'll simply stop working on this. -David