From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:36:01 +0200 Message-ID: <8737xdy3lq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <871tcyexa9.fsf@fimbulvetr.bsc.es> <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <87fv1d6fdf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <86lhb5wpwb.fsf@stephe-leake.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444836440 5278 80.91.229.3 (14 Oct 2015 15:27:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:27:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eric Ludlam To: Stephen Leake Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 14 17:27:09 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmNxK-0008Fw-L4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:27:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43022 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmNxJ-0000eo-TQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:27:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59960) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmNwE-0000M3-Mp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:25:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmNwA-0000IX-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:25:58 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59442) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmNw9-0000IQ-Sv; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:25:53 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45028 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZmNw9-0006lj-1E; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:25:53 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DC769E33BC; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:36:01 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <86lhb5wpwb.fsf@stephe-leake.org> (Stephen Leake's message of "Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:17:24 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191571 Archived-At: Stephen Leake writes: > David Kastrup writes: >> >> I got rid of it because it tended to eat all my CPU repeatedly digging >> through buffers and files in the background. I don't want some tool to >> go treasure-hunting for hours in my directories without concrete cause, >> then restart for inscrutable reasons. >> >> It had its own idea of projects not matching the projects I was working >> with, and it's an absolute no-go for Emacs to meddle with project >> organization: I want to be able to jump in with Emacs into any project >> without any pre- or post-configuration. >> >> Maybe that's a decisive difference between what people got to expect >> from an IDE and I expect from Emacs: if someone develops stuff in Visual >> C++, everybody in the project is expected to use the project >> organization tools of the Visual C++ IDE. But I don't want my choice of >> Emacs as an editor bleed all over a project. > > That means CEDET needs to recognize your Visual C++ project, just like > the Visual C++ IDE does. CEDET does not currently support this. Uh, no? I don't think I ever used Visual C++. Projects I work on use Makefiles if anything. Or some other build infrastructure. So if CEDET needs project information, its first idea of getting it should be to look at some toplevel Makefiles and, if it finds them, ask GNU Make for dependencies and stuff and probably look at a few standard Make targets. That's what to expect in GNU projects, the most important clientele. But I don't think it should ever get foraging for stuff on its own. >> Now you'll say that EDE (or Semantic, or whatever other component) is >> entirely optional but it's hard to figure out just what the relations >> of the various parts of CEDET are. If you want to just work with the >> code you have and not get stuff messed up, at some point of time it's >> easier to just forego the whole inscrutable package and simplify >> one's life. > > You seem to be implying that something in CEDET was changing things on > the disk without your permission; is that what you are actually > saying? No. I was saying >> I got rid of it because it tended to eat all my CPU repeatedly >> digging through buffers and files in the background. I don't want >> some tool to go treasure-hunting for hours in my directories without >> concrete cause, then restart for inscrutable reasons. Is there any reason to assume I mean something different when I write stuff like that? >> Again, that's a main difference to what a normal IDE is doing: it >> tends to focus on a small set of languages and does them well when I >> buy into the IDE, and I can use IDE features as needed. > > It's more than just the language; it's also the build tools and cross > reference tools, and the associated configuration files. Whatever. I wrote why I got rid of CEDET, you answer that the world is difficult for an IDE. That's nice but irrelevant. I'm fine with only requiring those services of an IDE which it can provide without being painful to me. If I don't get any obvious way to choose, if it's "take it all or leave it", then the probability is that I'll settle on the "leave it" option. -- David Kastrup