From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Etienne_Prud=E2=80=99homme?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: docstrings and elisp reference Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:10:13 -0400 Message-ID: <8737bapcze.fsf@x230.lts> References: <0BB64F35-233A-471F-B99F-51F96C4E6CCB@gmail.com> <8360g99n07.fsf@gnu.org> <86lgp4q2xa.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <7acc7d4f-23cc-4b6a-b062-ef92805e465b@default> <878tl3rz38.fsf@x230.lts> <834lvq8q3o.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1496945458 18888 195.159.176.226 (8 Jun 2017 18:10:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:10:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 08 20:10:52 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1tT-0004f8-8c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 20:10:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50923 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1tY-0007tk-G8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:10:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36311) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1sz-0007tP-Np for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:10:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1sy-00071f-FN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:10:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x242.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::242]:34561) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1su-00070I-C6; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:10:16 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x242.google.com with SMTP id a96so4000735ioj.1; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:10:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=js30Q03H5kPiwXBkekNQQzM4LlJh4CS7R48ga34BKiQ=; b=VWMaNmn+zZmX+y4jDPLWCbEWimdzmFSFyqDGL3EZWqrGWCH9KhXPNCEmoMm4sk8TDn Xy3HxNqQy1XYo3rhonU8jmtuJFR9CNbYjoLM3k49wJzVjN0OM5BnZBh95NlveGaGMONN /juuvCBtoE8ldPWAKwGYpjANZ8hGlT9fL4elHCVGVON1pW+1l6BZ6x2Pdc6KhL3B2Uit euST1YkHWP0TgFKkJypUH3OQHujeZRxlyroY0OALXaGyU1ZJqjQcdX+ak4d55YB0aVTl JE6FDxbmuSex/ps9wLIi9NdtmZmvSrOxro5ubNpaaFkXr0Zj9JH8RPxslfzk4yEhj9kT G6Zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=js30Q03H5kPiwXBkekNQQzM4LlJh4CS7R48ga34BKiQ=; b=Yw3z6ggtMDHZcJUWWtumVhWu88QuLYAG//Ud2aU1FkpGr5qu2lbkb0EzfQvBJACDh/ hRM7BiOOBFrOazRNA7VXhYAM8iM0dL5fJSwmyrDNI0L8mwdtc+zJwk70Mw1lQZPBojnG arP6bmhDfdmo6WPBwneoM3xHgj1TOhilGx1o1GprnNPfGREJcbnZgC7WfSZ0k3zulY2R zYao/Rtnnn12bBRiXH8o+QRvhQy0AQFbJ8kfF8TsfRxrzkGkFQalOFEXdsH4aLS8O/BD aF3kAcRXhPZ8bBvSTifoTEqdWoW1DRphnTvYT6kWeCf8kaJtd1T2Sruyxvq6uRuNhnlB KmuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCaXRiaIEbXu6UmFco09HH/swlH7Xm6HJjIRiSkEAKpogNbuvPs z2S+9y7ju3jYWAWYpMgB1Q== X-Received: by 10.107.46.135 with SMTP id u7mr10810573iou.10.1496945415388; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (modemcable232.49-20-96.mc.videotron.ca. [96.20.49.232]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b24sm2641538iod.33.2017.06.08.11.10.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:10:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <834lvq8q3o.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 08 Jun 2017 18:18:51 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::242 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:215524 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Are there any other similar free tools? Zeal seems a one-man project, > that is not developed too actively. There=E2=80=99s helm-dash. While the name makes it look like it depends on Dash, it=E2=80=99s only using the Dash documentation format. Being a one man project doesn=E2=80=99t exclude it from being popular. I s= ee 4,941 stars on Github. It=E2=80=99s particularly used (with Dash too) in t= he Front-End development field. > What's more, at least the docs it has for Bash and ELisp are exactly > the respective Texinfo manuals, with the same text and the same node > structure. What is the advantage of using a different browser for the > exact same text? That=E2=80=99s my point. I must confess that the available documentation f= or Elisp has better support now for choosing whether we search for a macro, command, function, etc. It used to index every symbols in the same entry type (variable entry). I may have been wrong in thinking it wasn=E2=80=99t possible, but there has to be a lot of work for the docset generator to do that. I wouldn=E2=80=99t be surprized that the Elisp docse= t was indexed by hand from Kapeli. He has economic incitatives to make good quality indexation. Furthermore, we could support much more indexation capabilities given the list of supported entry types[1]. > Most of the docs offered with Zeal are about languages and other > similar systems, so docs of GNU packages among them is more like the > odd one out than the rule. And given the contents, which is exactly > the Info manual, I don't see why bother. Am I missing something? What I meant was really the uniform search interface it provides. For advanced Emacs users, it=E2=80=99s not a problem looking what we want from = Emacs itself (or Info entries), but for a newcomers, it might look insane. People are now used to search engines when looking at documentation. Most new developpers I know won=E2=80=99t even bother buying physical books. > This should be discussed on the Texinfo list, not here. The current > Texinfo translator is highly customizable, so it could be that it can > be adapted to these needs much better. Since we were talking about Emacs, I thought this thread was more appropriate. I was refferring to the difficulty of porting GNU Emacs Lisp documentation to the Dash docset format. [1] https://kapeli.com/docsets#supportedentrytypes