From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:07:16 -0500 Message-ID: <87367tw723.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <06bcddd4-6991-e4f7-e944-93de14af263d@yandex.ru> <87h7wjsd8o.fsf@red-bean.com> <20897f01-122d-7f91-eac2-70f5ad75796f@yandex.ru> <87d077qfmm.fsf@red-bean.com> <87y2pmw9ld.fsf@red-bean.com> <6e4190a4-765d-6abd-1ae2-8c1432c29d65@yandex.ru> <20200521080349.GC26656@tuxteam.de> Reply-To: Karl Fogel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="40558"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 21 19:32:01 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jbp31-000AOe-CD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 19:31:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38102 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbp30-0003yc-DA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 13:31:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52732) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbofH-0002fA-Tu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 13:07:27 -0400 Original-Received: from newsp.red-bean.com ([45.79.25.59]:33174) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbofG-0003ID-B6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 13:07:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=red-bean.com; s=202005newsp; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:Reply-To:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=8i/aL3l082ML8FF6nvUSo44cka2fLeyANkvo+Gv4rnE=; t=1590080845; x=1591290445; b=U+aCFNyGlovTiCVJJOKwM0WYJS6iUyPf2DxDTUh7IS1ZoQ806RohDHK+iWt78T56ElX/sOmI4c LGc0eYlvvYRRTUCarbv8NBi9LnbS8ZO+VEt05CNLk/kNoh9TX1G+pYtx8RXNRZuB0yr0yt4QycRa5 vywZ9UB03V4fwTl7wCH3lBwkVyifeCqJu/OQbFTemXAq5lCt4b3DalrWpBz1rPXinykTFGf9Ky+MI NtpNqvXH86KrEd4JZ3cN9xP0IjzkCEvCJmrjp9oCdDffdL1CXXIVBtXgHjI+XnfyvIDci6estnKQz 0hF5cwCjvGfmp2vT7MXyinkioY8R/k5Pmlt0w==; Original-Received: from 99-112-125-163.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net ([99.112.125.163]:43798 helo=floss) by newsp.red-bean.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jbofD-0004gE-Fd; Thu, 21 May 2020 17:07:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20200521080349.GC26656@tuxteam.de> (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Thu, 21 May 2020 10:03:49 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.79.25.59; envelope-from=kfogel@red-bean.com; helo=newsp.red-bean.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/21 13:07:24 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251177 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 21 May 2020, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 01:07:41AM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote: >> On 21.05.2020 01:00, Karl Fogel wrote: >> >>In this we're, again, similar to other professional software. >> >Well, I'm not sure exactly what "professional software" means in this c= ontext, but if it means "expects the user to make sustained investment", th= en I agree. >>=20 >> I don't know, Blender? Which has reportedly made some strides in >> usability lately. Other 3D editors and associated programs. > >I keep seeing Blender mentioned here. One thing which should >be considered is that Blender was "born" 1994. At that time, >Emacs was around its 19th version and was already 18 -- so >allowed to drink (in some jurisdictions, that is). For those who would like to learn more about Blender's efforts to improve i= ts usability for "professional" users -- in this case, helped by someone wh= o is literally a professional user -- there's a Libre Lounge podcast episod= e that talks about this: https://librelounge.org/episodes/36-david-revoy-on-pepper--carrot-and-fre= e-culture.html The interviewee is David Revoy, author of the webcomic series "Pepper and C= arrot". (Our very own Christopher Lemmer Webber is one of the two co-hosts= of this episode; the other is libre sofware/culture activist Serge Wroclaw= ski.) I'm not sure how the lessons there might apply to Emacs, but someone else m= ight think of something I didn't. Libre Lounge is, naturally, available in entirely Free audio formats (thoug= h, alas, I don't think there's a transcript available). Best regards, =2DKarl --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJIBAEBCgAyFiEEsgfAWXyjn8Fyi3xbCKC3XMXtg0UFAl7GtUQUHGtmb2dlbEBy ZWQtYmVhbi5jb20ACgkQCKC3XMXtg0XN7w/+JQRaYrqNNaJTvcanGcGEzjgWtYk0 2KxHLNbc+JeNT3jeNOu+LKSqDiUhqodPsL1U8bSkXvfAqgfqt3cOtKr8bXC5EebN QVM0veNfeDUZfNu1qPvKLQAP+z0K35U79WOVbB5nA6/EUb8tM8yjAvkKU8N5x1Ja LOY/cNvUqEheWVbABb2Ec7BVtXOa9pvihflQd0E7/Yrp/zvf9Mo9g+cMvvWZZTRt 1yPfBk82spGdHYQgVDNfnnTbErBGj2mxY3wTLar5ANkn8CGSJkFkHisR4NOBrJ0N ral6nyjYZSxZcJsYzpbNDn16yG9Qa/DSfZ73qK3ApYEUmhA9WUtGBYLKyGvP9j7q DF7P6npmS8whMrASHGGUHg7mFdjkvdIFcXmtib0i9ZPp+AxqdwSk6eVXYvN49IlX NIbNwuww3b22k3Zvdg2SNzYnu2w9g79QCODc2NXIVigRQknetJv/TAu/K66meon0 mNHlj1xPC+8do/iZoxA/0Uw66XboS3mDL2/l/ZbapqtC/vyAdrJBe4M6LwvmjBz9 pVNDqO1qgNflTO00MNs0WNgO5lUrAFIxZiR9k2zm7TXXL6AEgkiEHYagFn3isa+y NREtt4UaQEkTwxRgzJVyid7L5IMsW29tcGNIuM9d4P96k7w3tHQ2Bh4YJ8rZNNYg oEzL2m7U3GYcJjY= =sPne -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--