From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:27:55 +0300 Message-ID: <87363pvpl0.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <87y2lkb6kb.fsf@gmail.com> <9A4FA038-CCFD-45DF-8B57-E348AFF951D9@gmail.com> <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7s6c31d.fsf@gmail.com> <87een96fpw.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28097"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: Gregory Heytings , Yuan Fu , Stefan Monnier , TEC To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 10 13:28:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGKkm-0007Bg-6u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 13:28:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36324 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGKkl-00051j-9R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 07:28:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35200) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGKkK-0004cq-Ck for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 07:28:08 -0400 Original-Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:40257) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGKkH-0001mc-PE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 07:28:08 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 31.206.236.86 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [31.206.236.86]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9301B40009; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:27:57 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: <87een96fpw.fsf@elephly.net> Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.194; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay2-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 07:28:03 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254972 Archived-At: On 2020-09-10 14:20 +03, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > At that point their initial enthusiasm has all but disappeared and they > glance over to their colleagues who use Rstudio or Atom (in 2017) or > that proprietary editor Sublime. Everything seems so easy and > approachable and just as extensible. They see their colleague use Git > from within Rstudio and wonder if they=E2=80=99d ever get to that point i= f they > will first have to configure Emacs to do all the basic things first. IMO we should draw a line between attracting users into a detrimental experience for them and making Emacs more approachable. Rstudio is a _great_ fundamental project, and if the rest of my life wasn=E2=80=99t insi= de Emacs, I=E2=80=99d be using it these days as I=E2=80=99m studying R. Org m= ode is better than Rmarkdown in certain respects, but if it=E2=80=99s just =E2=80=98do st= atistics in a nice environment=E2=80=99, I=E2=80=99d definitely recommend Rstudio over Em= acs (or anything else, for that matter). There=E2=80=99s no way Emacs will ever be= as good at that particular task set, especially if that=E2=80=99s the only tas= k set one will need it for. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427