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From: Bob Newell <bobnewell@bobnewell.net>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 14:52:21 -1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <873632lo3e.fsf@emailmessageidheader.nil> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANQHGB2F89i+THacYvFRkmT_G11mXDoNQ7m1t12go4ybb5RLUg@mail.gmail.com> (James Lu's message of "Sun, 27 Sep 2020 16:38:31 -0400")


James Lu <jamtlu@gmail.com> writes:

> Can your response be summarized like this?
>
> "Let's keep doing the same thing we're doing now
> and get the same result we've been getting for decades."

No, that's a complete misreading! And in any case, Emacs has
grown and developed over the years, and become ever more
powerful. That's positive change with positive results.

I perhaps wasn't clear enough about saying that of course more
high-quality documentation would be a good thing, that more
clarity would be a good thing, and that easing the learning
curve would be a good thing. (That's not to say that there
isn't already a lot of good documentation available, although
perhaps scattered about.)

The other side of that, though, is that I wouldn't like to see
Emacs turned into some bloated monster. It's large enough as
it is, but at least the size relates to the power. Emacs was
never big on frills and cosmetics.

Perhaps we have different concepts of what Emacs is or should
be, and that's fine. The Emacs community is broad and a
variety of opinions exist, as they should.

I don't want Emacs to be Visual Studio. I certainly don't want
it to be like an office suite with toolbars and ribbons filled
with incomprehensible icons. I'm comfortable with the idea of
putting in effort to get a lot more back in return. In turn, I
recognize the need to keep the community active by bringing in
new people. It's a balancing act but if we don't stay true to
the core concepts of Emacs, which to me are unrivaled power
and flexibility with a minimalist, unobtrusive interface,
I think we will have gone in an unfortunate direction.

I don't really know the statistics: is the Emacs audience
truly in decline? By what measure? This is not a challenge but
a genuine question; I really don't know the answer.

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB



  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-09-28  0:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 292+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-09-26 13:38 How to make Emacs popular again James Lu
2020-09-26 13:47 ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-09-26 13:50   ` James Lu
2020-09-26 13:59 ` Philip K.
2020-09-26 14:53   ` Ergus
2020-09-26 16:59     ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 18:26     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-27  2:41       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 13:16         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28  3:45           ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 23:29             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28 23:51               ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-09-30  4:37                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-30  5:26                   ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-10-02  3:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  4:43                       ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-09-30 10:03                   ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01  4:14                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01  7:41                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-01  8:11                       ` Philip K.
2020-10-02  3:52                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 16:02                           ` dict - " Jean Louis
2020-10-03  2:56                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03  7:47                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-10  3:53                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03  9:00                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10  3:53                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:21                       ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01  4:14                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:22                       ` Jean Louis
2020-09-30 13:59                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01  4:13                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 13:07                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 14:39                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:53                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 15:11                           ` tomas
2020-10-01 16:15                             ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:30                               ` tomas
2020-10-02  3:53                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:46                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-10-01 16:21                           ` Jean Louis
2020-10-02  3:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  7:08                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-02 10:11                               ` Sv: " arthur miller
2020-10-02 16:13                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-02 16:18                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-02 16:33                                   ` Jean Louis
2020-10-03  7:26                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  3:45                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  7:31                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10  3:53                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-10  7:24                                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-10-10  7:52                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10 12:22                                               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-10-04  8:56                                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04  3:38                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 16:07                             ` Jean Louis
2020-10-03  2:56                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03  8:28                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:52                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-02  3:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  3:52                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  7:07                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  3:38                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  6:57                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  9:02                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04  9:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-05  3:14                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-05  5:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-06  2:34                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  8:25                               ` Dictionaries better be offline - " Jean Louis
2020-10-04  3:38                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  7:03                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 10:07                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 10:52                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 13:54                                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 14:05                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-05  3:12                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-10  3:53                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-11  5:37                                   ` How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11  6:28                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11  6:35                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11  7:00                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 10:54                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 11:28                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 13:58                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 22:21                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-12 16:49                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13  0:38                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 14:40                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14  4:03                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 14:54                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 17:07                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-14 17:39                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 22:53                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 13:57                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:21                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 14:28                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:48                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 14:52                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 15:00                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 16:25                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 16:50                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 18:31                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 18:49                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15  6:51                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 12:26                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15  6:48                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 14:02                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:07                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 14:24                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16  5:06                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 13:56                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 22:14                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 23:39                                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-12 16:46                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13  0:35                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 14:39                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14  4:01                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 14:49                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 13:21                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 14:02                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 14:35                                     ` Teemu Likonen
2020-10-11 15:21                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-11 18:29                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 18:58                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-11 19:41                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 19:42                                         ` Drew Adams
2020-10-11 19:56                                         ` Stephen Berman
2020-10-11 21:09                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 22:23                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 22:50                                             ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-02 21:06                                             ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-02 22:33                                               ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-03 21:05                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-03 21:06                                                 ` Roland Winkler
2020-12-03 14:48                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-12  9:47                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-12 11:17                                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-12 17:24                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-12 11:24                                     ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-12 16:30                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-10-12 23:02                                         ` Tim Cross
2020-10-13  0:34                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13  6:02                                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-13 20:00                                     ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-13 20:36                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-10-14  4:05                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14  7:06                                         ` Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-10-14  7:09                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14  7:46                                             ` Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-10-14  7:53                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14  8:30                                                 ` James Cloos
2020-10-14  9:14                                                   ` tomas
2020-10-14 15:03                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14  8:03                                         ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-14 16:38                                           ` Drew Adams
2020-10-15  6:45                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 13:21                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-12  2:19                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12  7:58                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-12 13:23                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 13:39                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-12 15:27                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 16:40                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-12 17:29                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 17:51                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-13  7:34                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19  3:13                                     ` Robert Weiner
2021-04-19  7:12                                       ` tomas
2021-04-19  7:55                                       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-04-19 12:31                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 12:48                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  8:27                               ` How to make Emacs popular again Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:08                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 15:01                       ` James Lu
2020-10-01 15:03                         ` James Lu
2020-10-01 16:13                           ` GNU Dico - " Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:29                             ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-01 16:39                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:32                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 16:41                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:55                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-01 16:44                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 15:19                         ` tomas
2020-10-01 15:33                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-01 16:07                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 19:15                         ` chad
2020-10-02  5:41                           ` Jean Louis
2020-09-29  8:08               ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-09-29 11:40                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-30  4:37               ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 16:30 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 16:51   ` James Lu
2020-09-26 18:06     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-27  2:42       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  8:27         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28  3:47           ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 16:54   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 17:36     ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 18:11       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 18:58         ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 19:26           ` Drew Adams
2020-09-26 19:28           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 21:04             ` James Lu
2020-09-27  2:42       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  6:29         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-27  2:42       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  7:32         ` Jean Louis
2020-09-27  7:53           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-28 22:25             ` Jean Louis
2020-09-29 14:11               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-29 15:14                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-20 13:22                   ` Arthur Miller
2020-10-20 15:46                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-27  4:14                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-10-27  7:15                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-22 14:09                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-22 14:18                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-28  3:44           ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 19:27   ` Drew Adams
2020-09-27  2:41   ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  2:41   ` tooltip feature Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  9:42     ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-27 10:05       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-27 10:29         ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-27 16:00       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-29  1:07         ` chad
2020-09-27 17:31   ` How to make Emacs popular again Bob Newell
2020-09-27 20:31     ` James Lu
2020-09-28  3:52       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28  6:05       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-28 22:00       ` Jean Louis
2020-09-27 20:38     ` James Lu
2020-09-27 20:40       ` James Lu
2020-09-28  0:52       ` Bob Newell [this message]
2020-09-28  2:48         ` 황병희
2020-09-28 18:12         ` James Lu
2020-09-28  5:27       ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 21:10     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-10-07  8:58     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-07 11:21       ` João Távora
2020-10-07 14:28         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-08  4:42         ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-08  9:27           ` João Távora
2020-10-09  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 14:05           ` Georges Ko
2020-10-08 14:13             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-09  3:32             ` Lists of symbols in the Lisp Manual Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 14:22           ` How to make Emacs popular again Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 14:29             ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-08 14:54               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 15:00                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-08 15:22                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 18:08               ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-08 18:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 20:45                   ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-08 20:49                     ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09  6:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 21:57                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-08 22:06                     ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:16                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-08 22:36                         ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:41                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
     [not found]                             ` <efa8dd80-e172-4b16-9052-1aaa027c14d9@default>
     [not found]                               ` <834kn37v3p.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-10-09 15:25                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09  6:41                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-09  7:38                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-09  9:41                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 20:38                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 20:39               ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:01                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 22:21                   ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:33                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 22:47                       ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 23:13                         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-09 22:50                           ` Drew Adams
2020-10-10  0:51                             ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-10  2:15                               ` Drew Adams
2020-10-10  8:52                                 ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-10 16:20                                   ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 20:45               ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 18:12   ` James Lu
2020-09-30 18:44   ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-30 20:51     ` Mathias Dahl
2020-10-01 18:51       ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-26 17:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-28  5:16 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-28 11:11   ` Ergus
2020-09-28 21:52     ` Jean Louis
2020-09-28  9:00 ` How to make Emacs popular again [or less square] Po Lu
2020-09-28  9:38   ` Eli Zaretskii

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