From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Albinus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing. Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:30:53 +0200 Message-ID: <87362x13v6.fsf@gmx.de> References: <20200929124513.fd745r2txowwbiir@Ergus> <87blho7af9.fsf@red-bean.com> <20200929215849.zg4wzytbrwx2b7ih@Ergus> <84B86B7C-81F0-42DF-894C-BF577E4B3D6E@mit.edu> <83a6x7js6y.fsf@gnu.org> <83eemji6e8.fsf@gnu.org> <20201001141144.GO4797@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201001160136.chwmpollk4d3qc2e@Ergus> <20201001165342.yyudrweicducnozn@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9451"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Qiantan Hong , fmfs@posteo.net, Jean Louis , npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 02 09:36:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kOFbn-0002L8-UL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:36:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60948 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOFbm-0007a2-Po for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 03:36:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56244) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOFXe-00069M-6E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 03:31:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:41251) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOFXb-0003CS-MV; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 03:31:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1601623856; bh=JLKQCE2Gn/rgONLePaL/VJiQZLTtHEZRYp0YZmjnAm4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=KcHUmPh/SDxch12Uz5HU+3KSeivvSYs3sJvNspRmf8zgXuiZDP/KM9fmPHb2ZLt3m 9x1W9xdFFY4tmZuTFLAQFk+GzabN96PFwHXQHSpt/PPgteRcwPsJbgXS4186rH95Ph By0tPhy8s6lmZVzywuifRB9KhpSd6JwFvG9SPoMY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([212.86.45.219]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mj8mV-1ks3yM3RLh-00f7OM; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:30:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20201001165342.yyudrweicducnozn@Ergus> (Ergus's message of "Thu, 1 Oct 2020 18:53:42 +0200") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Otm3ddnhGQoBZBFuHEDd4211/wPti6sfxdrFXyZPjcSHwa4QUvw K0wBjdOqMPc7/FOyPH6iDZ1AOX8neYNtmFpDT9QvoNzq10irlCoqTmkWhoaLHn2RrB6Ya5Y 4ERkw7lLcZphoopbt3Q1xLVjfbql3PUMZz4LQyop794DUzaKjs0LNaLuuAoLKqpon9zLQec QZJUsRD11bPUdVvHRxFrw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ICrFbxYSd4I=:RLZzbgn1Q3lU50nDk9DWZR V83Hc/wAVL+SUOBJho5PzPqq3cdOexVhQ3VR1Y9hm/kQ458TPZKht/rjZGn0qJ9rP8xuzSy91 8kn+VA2Uy7pB3emZXCXyS5CEbcIDmBEZ5zSzeCLe7jpXZBVyVwqIFIS6ebuWkrV3z6xPCVHhv bTPhDe/ZPd3k0ttb6i4fy0g7pdBeSoh2t2qX+uya2zR2BE1I//0GeYnCjyaTjxp9lb15YAhfK QsDSP0DLAzgCuVaD3WmnbxNe0R3eoplC4Bvlo5Uukq5FME8Q9NguLiBM+Jl7WrQ0276e0EtB7 M7R+Hy2gK4ZR8H+YSimAmbq/ZdeXYca51QGWpiMiibTtEahCBfcnALBAJ0FNJd5aX2ktPA1iD Y+x1dwVMzB1fpykdjlfpezhtUB2tiU5kxnkPhGdGP7NWnI5DjiUj0yzqqUASeqONtQIDO9xji v6GkNhAa1Cc7suSPSrE9HTf43kPWYs08Mn3ewI1BW4r4mgX5DmsTpvWk9fyopcyIdcwGBGYmg 7Wg+QqnzFX8j/AWt79hJ3p0whKxwzGN48ahlYo0bYspH3DGnD2x5ak0IxtrjEE399abMOWaxz B1tw9+hUGcQ2oI4oSTCY/KBHXAoa1TjjKHAzkLWoJT186XHs8fCABwoMsc7p+AQ5bApqviUcL 63vAq/2BQwND61T/rnqEPJk+uktkcd8R7DT90vN4lVltxbHv6hp2KyW7zME0Un+UNHqty30O/ uS3WXUJMAQu4sfCAgzffDrjEiElxZ825gFZJoqmyXR9Hi6R5AOlBIQOl+iwWxqeGmRmeNE6E Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=michael.albinus@gmx.de; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/02 03:31:39 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256933 Archived-At: Ergus writes: >>> It is a bit more complex, because for remote editing it is not easy to >>> establish connection in different NAP, cross firewalls, and so on. And >>> as I said before, we don't have resources to provide a server service >>> for this that runs "our" CRTD server. >>> >>> Withing the same network it still requires a sort of local service to >>> solve the conflicts. And that also needs to be implemented... >> >>Well, we can start with something simple. How about implementing >>collaboration on local area network first. I remember we had fun with >>'talk'. Once implemented on LAN, users can then figure out how to work >>across continents using some kind of tunnel. >> >>An example use-case might be: >> >>user1: >>1. C-x C-f (find-file) >>2. M-x enable-collaboration ; this generates a session-key >>3. Share session key with collaborators via chat/email >> >>user2: (via Tramp) >>1. C-x C-f /collab:session-key@ip-address:filename >> >>Users get cursors with different colours. >> >>The advantage of using Tramp is that users can always use Ad-hoc >>multi-hops. >> > Yes, this is exactly my expected workflow more or less. It is p2p as I > have mentioned before I would prefer it to be. The tramp integration is > something way far from my capabilities, but in general that's the > idea ;). I don't want to be the grinch, but pls remember what Tramp is: a library for alternative implementations of file operations. I don't see yet how /collab:session-key@ip-address:filename fits into the game, but maybe it needs more details to understand. For example, which file operations shall be treated. Furthermore, I also don't understand what needs to be done on the remote side wrt collaboration. A remote file in Emacs is still a file, connected to a buffer. All primitive file operations can be applied on this. Best regards, Michael.