From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2022 19:45:43 +0000 Message-ID: <8735m35lp4.fsf@posteo.net> References: <897ED591-43BC-4029-912A-917E5E9F6930@gmail.com> <83mtkeefmt.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8z2o90o.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fsq617rt.fsf@139.com> <87v8z1p6j8.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtkbfpo1.fsf@139.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21835"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nan JunJie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 04 20:47:27 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n4pmI-0005Tn-Ng for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 20:47:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37984 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4pmH-0002uU-Ea for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 14:47:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35892) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4pkj-0001e3-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 14:45:50 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:41411) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4pkh-0006dg-KL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 14:45:49 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82607240028 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:45:45 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1641325545; bh=pI6HC63MQQxCUwHOJ25KXleNbX30rUHy4g821ps50Rs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=UTAj9s7hZrvFr2i3d9obvwgL6MVT4EYTrWtwvmwQbO3Be55+YYTmENndi2J43Tl4/ 0MvQJv2aVAZbpB3aSDLTHAWAFgQJtEPDlnuiUcDbMADzhZ8z8Wde7/JpRutq55a5os eY1b5/PkQMHHNPDEBisJ9j9jwHNrq3wkkd9BxeL3rcxtXF8n8H/faYVpYspyn87Jdg RTvk0Qsh/PKcs4SU1iMPMRUr4mUij8XYlbgVofL4XRnO3XyBF+EDmJ2jzVOjRnAyzO BBAcvk6kIfdgsrnItSR+1jLxWUcADz5xys2m2bbc13KfpAzyJDZ8zvS0K1rTvWs7pE uigEvMMeTnPUA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4JT34m2z7zz9rxF; Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:45:44 +0100 (CET) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: <87mtkbfpo1.fsf@139.com> (Nan JunJie's message of "Wed, 05 Jan 2022 00:09:50 +0800") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -24 X-Spam_score: -2.5 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.5 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284195 Archived-At: Nan JunJie writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >> nanjunjie@139.com writes: >> >>> For me an emacs user, `customize` itself is a setup wizard, it does not >>> need another setup wizard to customize the customization. Or once the setup >>> wizard came out, we need to figure out how to customize the setup >>> wizard, and we would enter an endless loop. >> >> I disagree, the setup wizard could be seen as a "tour" of customizable >> options, consciously designed to guide the user into the relevant >> options that are worth paying attention to. >> > > Customization may not need a `tour` like this. Usually customization > actions occur at the very beginning. What do you mean by "the very beginning"? My point was just to say that if a setup wizard would be generalised, the infrastructure could be generalised to other package, but also Emacs releases (you download a new version of Emacs and want an interactive guide of what you might be interested in changing). > So early that `setup wizard` has no > chance to guide the beginners anything. Once the beginners gained enough > abilities to accept the guidence and start the "tour" for customizable > options, they already knew what the customization is, even how it works, > so do not need the `tour`:) Maybe I am wrong. Too long time, I can't > remember exactly when and how I got the key point of customizations as > an emacs beginner. I agree that if you are a total beginner, just listing user options that exist 1:1 wouldn't be that productive. A wizard must be able to abstract and bundle multiple options, not just skip from one customize-option buffer to the next. -- Philip Kaludercic