From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question about completion behavior Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 19:15:12 +0800 Message-ID: <8735jqhxdr.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <20220309014619.bptamkv47xdiyhzp@Ergus> <831qzbg5j2.fsf@gnu.org> <20220309101159.4k3uma2ztvldlqiz@Ergus> <20220309114654.zq3h3u47btmt7q2u@Ergus> <83tuc7e066.fsf@gnu.org> <87y21ji6ht.fsf@yahoo.com> <87lexiiqnk.fsf@yahoo.com> <20220310102157.wmmn7bkkdbux7aug@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8167"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 10 12:27:52 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nSGxT-0001zX-JG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:27:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57418 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nSGxS-00050X-Eg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 06:27:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47676) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nSGlW-0001rV-Iw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 06:15:30 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.45]:44243) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nSGlT-0005kM-EO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 06:15:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1646910924; bh=3OvqDNPfpULqc69wIH66r/QHsiSM5uXasOdE87s93/Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=dxEY0jb9miHcQfZye+qS1baPsDxQ2q41W/RhFEVzofqZAwQLlw19Bke6/3tL2iXPm8N72ABugFolJSgOvUKz2rR+i9bGmu7bRaXwfJLYK6SobOTebm5XMy9+scB4rb+hUUKgibJxY68GVtOy6FaG6vFhw/FyAYvgqbC6xmAbXGdfuDlxNH6w5tYxTm0lqR8P/Pj3YtMsaXvxI8tMdDudY8Lx6CE2LEOkJ3pLyskkfeSg9kR37KcLq1K6YvUyb2GTu+y99UUZUarO02ZcSTGHhuOZT5O3XLbgOdg2Uuazq+KSAXAhfNwoanJxh1CWGvZdWCC3jh6ojlwa39DF1r+UXg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1646910924; bh=+awbheVy08R79szPdlFQ/pafTYyj8OewSif9WoW0Cky=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=m+FZKiacCBRMuhjbMYktiltiCFCAUoHKYvDwZG7Pzm3kPfbiOHjn0ojGknROaDOVigbSqaqes8tbmlU22pljCHhtSN7lB0XeC0TxkrDds21NwZ01UXiRDcgud2Bh+9N7WXMqRSOwDCvGWi3ip9hXdEuKzfrXQo9SlejyXJMx9tasSWAHswG4jnME1YJSgdvwWxdSCCq49uDhE1p8VKJ25rLneiISC+b7dUmxwB8LKiyYmiSP8r1lbI+Cws2vA4NCU05JSzMiPBY/wk7C02hEcFPqF18VtRVCGxodMELHEG908twpDGHb/Ncs5xvqoMzhZVFndAqID4SrrOVvTIClTQ== X-YMail-OSG: qfhZscYVM1n15iQJpnIZAOVwQuenOxL5gyMTpbAAqxOpjphjaEZolMWPXHnA5q0 lyj5_2QktMWvCmZE_uymQ12WUsw2XMR_70_cJ8T3Z777vGIbh7w3X9w4zyzZdtf6PDCzJlVYpI2i ZUeYE3LKwplv1DqVqx.2LECVzBYbUL0B.n8ibkUddqMFd52i9jfEda_uD6Ys4Ppxm7mrtmrVKD_v VThFdfTlCyZ3xh0KEwL14HIKr4MAXGwXj6d81DbTjDuOIjSlQrh633YB.OsQ9yMev38iqHBlzPQI 4l5HWTbSU1pV77wgaCuyhr0_jz4SpRglfe8OVquCK3_nhWiUaAn2oGCBXSaqDY58VyRm3K5Yu9Jv 9d6_3osFl_V13wBq0lgnA1LA0joJWU852.IX51zMsn4FK6psc93ORiZPr0WkGhY8DVYdIkIXRelb A3xC24v6hrtPOOGkBusg4CzV9DV4lN7HLsxw_p_LRlAUBkfKlqUdTdlFP3ZYQ93xh90NAo2_gwIF 5D5s7UZ8QYRaeBmYgHSmmQMqMdlGo1Mnscb8GzbscGBTwg2XsLaD3BvZyruGDCy2kdF2DCv3K78. Eca76d1iNYTLO1CRTFSDiGyFjUiyTJRnZjRC0bhlpFT5nefT0._kN46DTV2zWsjoPAL8uK3r3mHR S36cqcLqXcAnoKYGjtjOIK8bHeXJamAaPMn7P7WJPTRSErKLeaSxOzJGNZU7XxcgEBjBIdZPWwmO _XpAWKpCkUEBVIBQ3KUtK9W3SXEJ7rFl4PanoeA4o9S.n6.oBbml5IzOA2wXdEeEeJ1Q8HIZBK9Y Z0Ibgsj7qzxwVD.iov9tt8gwsiSfuEwcoaWnKHTGyP X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:15:24 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode514.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e41bf0e06acbe0162f513aafa88c92ef; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:15:16 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <20220310102157.wmmn7bkkdbux7aug@Ergus> (Ergus's message of "Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:21:57 +0100") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19878 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.45; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:286991 Archived-At: Ergus writes: > If it is small, then should be easier to do. Maybe? No, let's just add an option for it and let people decide for themselves. Thanks. > Old users usually know how to add 1 line to their config if they really > feel annoyed and want to revert. But most of them use > ido/vertico/selectrum/ivy or something else (for a reason btw). If they are happy with ivy or ido, then I don't see why we have to change anything at all. Ido is built-in, and ivy is available on ELPA. > On every release the NEWS file is so long and most changes are cryptic > for external users; the manual is usually more difficult to explore > (almost impossible to find, or search in for a new user) and the first > impression is in general very bad. Don't we also have a "what's new in..." section in the FAQ, which should be much shorter than NEWS? There's also customize-changed, and the user manual is available from the menu bar (along with the commands to search in the user manual, and the FAQ.) > I have new students every year and I try them to use emacs, after a > while I notice that they only "stand it" because (and while) I insist, > some of them try external inits from github to start, some others try > customizations like spacemacs or similes... but at the end all of them > end using vim, vscode and so on. I think vim is a very bad example here, since things aren't much different on their side of the iron curtain. > Many of the defaults are very "archaic"... and some are like that > because of hardware limitations from 20-30 years ago. I can't actually think of instances of that particular reason. We do turn on font locking by default now, for example, including in C-like languages which are in general quite slow to fontify even on today's hardware. > In conclusion we don't have any effective way to "to ask the people to > try" things that maybe they need. Let's ask on info-gnu-emacs, it should reach a wide enough amount of people. Thanks.