From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rob Browning Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 00:43:42 -0500 Message-ID: <8735do7rzl.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> References: <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87ilmlluxq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h725olz1.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgfxn6lt.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu65k9ec.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r119lnsd.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtbxlnf1.fsf@gnus.org> <87czctk890.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a67xlm9v.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtbxiswr.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mtbx75yu.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <87h725m0qy.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19246"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Monnier , Po Lu , Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Sean Whitton Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 22 07:46:18 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQ0GP-0004qV-SQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2022 07:46:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44402 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQ0GO-0003PQ-Kg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2022 01:46:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35354) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQ0ER-0002Zy-U7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2022 01:44:16 -0400 Original-Received: from defaultvalue.org ([45.33.119.55]:37420) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQ0EQ-0001XK-4j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2022 01:44:15 -0400 Original-Received: from trouble.defaultvalue.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: rlb@defaultvalue.org) by defaultvalue.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1672520317; Mon, 22 Aug 2022 00:43:43 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: by trouble.defaultvalue.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E05514E496; Mon, 22 Aug 2022 00:43:42 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <87h725m0qy.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.33.119.55; envelope-from=rlb@defaultvalue.org; helo=defaultvalue.org X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293775 Archived-At: Sean Whitton writes: > So, in your view it would be fine if we didn't use -gtk by default even > though GNOME is Debian's default desktop? I don't think I have any categorical opinion on that front either in general, or at the moment. And since I don't use gnome, emacs-gtk, or emacs tool/menu/scroll bars right now (and haven't for a long while), I'd need more information. One broad question might be "what is 'apt install emacs' for"?[1] i.e. is it intended to provide the "best/preferred typical emacs", and people should expect that it might produce substantially disruptive changes over time (presumably only on major debian release boundaries), i.e. lucid -> gtk -> something-new, or is it intended to provide the emacs that goes with the default desktop (also potentially disruptive across releases), or... [1] Note to all that the "emacs" package is currently an empty metapackage that actually depends on "emacs-gtk | emacs-lucid | emacs-nox", so that any flavor will satisfy an "emacs" dependency, but the flavor listed first in the metapackage's dependencies is the one you get if you just try to install it directly. I believe I chose that ordering years ago, based on what appeared to be the upstrem preferences at the time. Ignoring the disruptive transition for a moment, I also wonder how much it'd actually matter if emacs (eventually) preferred something other than emacs-gtk. Then people using gnome would "just" need to know to install emacs-gtk or emacs-gnome instead of emacs. (Any gnome-related package that wants an emacs, could still depend on the concrete flavor if appropriate.) That said, given the potential disruption. I might well be inclined to set a moderately high bar for changes. I also suspect a minor avalanche of bugs will be filed if/when we do change the default to something substantially different -- given varying opinions. What's in a name? -- Rob Browning rlb @defaultvalue.org and @debian.org GPG as of 2011-07-10 E6A9 DA3C C9FD 1FF8 C676 D2C4 C0F0 39E9 ED1B 597A GPG as of 2002-11-03 14DD 432F AE39 534D B592 F9A0 25C8 D377 8C7E 73A4