From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 10:57:36 +0200 Message-ID: <8735dm10jj.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87ilmlluxq.fsf@yahoo.com> <83h725deo3.fsf@gnu.org> <87bksdltah.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r119bni8.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8ql4kwk.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <87tu65ilq2.fsf@telefonica.net> <87fshpgjsg.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31566"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lynn Winebarger , luangruo@yahoo.com, ofv@wanadoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 24 10:59:48 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQmEm-000856-9H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 10:59:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60678 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQmEl-000280-3D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:59:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60980) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQmCu-0008Gy-BE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:57:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]:39492) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQmCj-0003Ki-24; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:57:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id o3so1384077wrv.6; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:57:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date :gmane-reply-to-list:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from :to:cc; bh=srM9r9uO/o4CkgpFb/EDpaywHOKtXHccxhzkAOpDp9Q=; b=SzJHtcZmXiU2glUGeFlnqx6VkmLpLiWCa5xAqjbijnJe7Gpfx41FkIvq6wd+6XyGUB r801KmzIv9h2AWE2hJ3K+KznFVEgl+aD4Jxz01v3OB9uPd0cQ/8tOkXzvD8jVJIcmMSb L9+vGzBTHxy2zY9uY5/CwOgExdsWFw3iu/QOZ5QkaprM84N69l6fmPy8AUaHMqPjqorq Yu83hTv5JE2wihJMfJxvIwxlxh+JoIuWGHup6AfRDfr/254jZN/e5LEiDeZ6eW8a1G6D ZBPCb5hLrKaifhr/zLHGu2WE7HnWUA/lXbtPXKrBWx4k8Jvp8OBn1C+tvAVliUj2jFfw LXEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date :gmane-reply-to-list:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=srM9r9uO/o4CkgpFb/EDpaywHOKtXHccxhzkAOpDp9Q=; b=kqHc1YNaYIU/eldUI7m9+dkL5IWniQ13Cwucr2g2JbSq6srw+lmlTxs9P8FTrxGe/D cmco61EacDU1bIQM7Tfi7K7K815Kb07AiYQXhM4xwwGnzDVqf5NryFbmf1Hvd6NID/vZ X5tCUd8Z0ZHSF+7RRSSSFX6/ExR+pQDcVFGJYfpzEpNgwHbwDD/TzTYJDYnh3NjNsxan 02y+c1HgPvLRsw8vfMJ1qS5ht492W3NS4CCg0Obsq1fhOcqSZkSsYAQerMh6A3O35PK4 LbqrxsrVJf3Kc9SSLEArNzatiUhK1WxbS4v6pkC8kQDCMK4N2itY0DBtDfL8q9YXZNe0 vYjg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2+s0kiJv/bJWXWmnqRZMSlJXo/23Xx91SK7zktrPn13I2cV+Os GW/721JxSvFJfh/hE+wXJuk8nwctZXU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6U4ZjmfYMSp/MdLpAd8M0YtgAxYM8ziyOoj92zhkLv+Kq8rwwNnksQJ/dICXBXYHdROoljXw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:886:b0:225:24f5:deac with SMTP id ca6-20020a056000088600b0022524f5deacmr15239616wrb.104.1661331457630; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:5c0f:9579:1eb8:85f9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5-20020a1cac05000000b003a626055569sm1234110wme.16.2022.08.24.01.57.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:57:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 23 Aug 2022 23:52:58 -0400") Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42e; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293968 Archived-At: >>>>> On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 23:52:58 -0400, Richard Stallman sa= id: Richard> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please conside= r ]]] Richard> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,= ]]] Richard> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's exam= ple. ]]] >> > Requiring a C++ compiler to build Emacs is a big practical >> > disadvantage. Including C++ code in Emacs will be an obstacle for >> > people such as me to debug or write code. >> Could you elaborate on why this is an issue Richard> C++ is a complex language. I don't want Emacs to require deve= lopers Richard> to know C++. Meh. C-with-macros as used all over Emacs is complex as well, and also requires learning. I=CA=BCm neither a C++ fanboy nor an expert in "modern" C++, but if it can be used to reduce complexity I=CA=BCm all for it. GDB seems to have had some success with it. Richard> when C++ infra= structure >> (including GNU C++ infrastructure) is so widely available? Richard> I'm sure there will be some users for which getting that runni= ng is a Richard> hassle. It may be a minority, in which case this would be a s= econdary Richard> problem. Maybe this by itself would not be enough of a reason= not to Richard> use C++. I can=CA=BCt think of a major platform for Emacs which doesn=CA=BCt have a = C++ compiler (MS-DOS maybe?) Robert --=20