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* Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias?
@ 2022-09-30  8:04 Stefan Kangas
  2022-09-30  8:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
                   ` (9 more replies)
  0 siblings, 10 replies; 199+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2022-09-30  8:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: João Távora

Hi all, João,

Now that we're getting closer to merging eglot, I think it is our last
chance to (re-)consider that "eglot" is not the ideal name.  It has some
charm, of course, but it is quite non-descriptive and it's hard (read:
impossible) to understand what it does based on the name alone.[1]

As for names, lsp-mode would be the obvious choice, but some other
package has occupied that prefix (too bad).  I therefore propose
renaming it to elsp-mode and using the elsp-* prefix for it.

At the very least, we should consider adding some alias, like
`start-lsp', and/or `lsp-start'.[2]

Footnotes:
[1]  https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2020-05/msg02828.html

[2]  https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2020-05/msg02818.html



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 199+ messages in thread
* Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias?
@ 2022-09-30  8:54 Payas Relekar
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 199+ messages in thread
From: Payas Relekar @ 2022-09-30  8:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


>> Now that we're getting closer to merging eglot, I think it is our last
>> chance to (re-)consider that "eglot" is not the ideal name.  It has some
>> charm, of course, but it is quite non-descriptive and it's hard (read:
>> impossible) to understand what it does based on the name alone.[1]
>
> I can only agree.  Especially because there are a number of packages
> starting with "el...", which makes misreading the package name as
> "elgot" very easy (which is still how I pronounce the package when
> speaking to this day).
>
>> As for names, lsp-mode would be the obvious choice, but some other
>> package has occupied that prefix (too bad).  I therefore propose
>> renaming it to elsp-mode and using the elsp-* prefix for it.
>>
>> At the very least, we should consider adding some alias, like
>> `start-lsp', and/or `lsp-start'.[2]
>
> I think that even using the word "lsp" suffers from the same issue, as a
> lot of people still have no idea what LSP is (even if they are using
> it).  I don't have a better suggestion but maybe mentioning the word
> "intelligence" or "ide" would be better.

How about intellisense? Asking because Microsoft does own the trademark,
and I'm not sure if we can use it for similar product.

elsp-mode, while terse is not the first thing one might think.
codesense, codesmart or some such might be better.
--



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 199+ messages in thread
* Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias?
@ 2022-10-04 10:10 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 199+ messages in thread
From: xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions. @ 2022-10-04 10:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Demands over changing eglot's name are super annoying.  A name
change is going to accomplish absolutely nothing, maybe except
disrespecting the author.  If you want to do that at least come
up with an actually good name.  Not with ludicrous things like
"{smart,intelligent,clever}-mode" or "IntelliSense."
Descriptions (hardly names) like lsp-mode are passable but
definitely less tasteful so authors should decide whether they
prefer this-package-does-this-and-uses-this-software-protocol-
implementing-other-software-thing-mode or something both tasteful
AND descriptive like Emacs Polyglot.

I for one never got bothered when I saw Emacs packages like Gnus
and not immediately understand "crazy customizable news reader
that is somehow a great mail client."  I suspect it is the same
for most users, considering the names of extremely popular software
worldwide.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 199+ messages in thread
* Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias?
@ 2022-10-08  9:33 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 199+ messages in thread
From: xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions. @ 2022-10-08  9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: stefankangas; +Cc: emacs-devel, joaotavora

> FWIW,
>
> The word "bikeshedding" often gets thrown around when someone tries to
> find ways of making Emacs easier to use.  I don't think that is the best
> approach.  Ease of use often comes down to minor details, in themselves
> not a big deal, but that taken together will start to add up.
>
> I also think the claim that naming doesn't matter is wrong.  Naming of
> user facing features *does* matter, especially of important features
> such as this one.  We have enough technical debt, quirks and historical
> baggage in Emacs as it is.

I completely agree, what is out of place is that since there seems to be
no desire to a unified naming scheme undertaking, and will probably never
be one as there will always be something more important than "just cleaning
things up" like emulating LibreOffice, only Eglot gets the ire of
inconsistencies, and all the previous packages and likely most future ones
will keep having unique names anyway, and this is not fair or nice.

> Several people have argued the renaming case effectively, and I haven't
> seen any need to add much beyond that.  But it's clear to me now that we
> haven't been able to find a significantly better name.  Given that there
> is also a lot of opposition to renaming, I think I agree that, on
> balance, it might be better to leave this alone.
>
> Long live Eglot.  I'm happy to see it merged.

So IMO if there is a problem it lies deeper and not on naming choice of
Eglot per se.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 199+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-10-14  9:59 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 199+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-09-30  8:04 Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? Stefan Kangas
2022-09-30  8:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-09-30  8:59   ` Theodor Thornhill
2022-09-30 12:30     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-09-30 11:33   ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2022-09-30 11:38     ` João Távora
2022-09-30 12:18       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2022-09-30 12:24         ` João Távora
2022-10-02  1:09         ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-30 13:26     ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-30 16:21       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2022-09-30 10:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-01  9:28   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-01  9:53     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-01 15:33       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-01 15:39         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-03  1:06           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-03 16:28             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-01 14:51     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-01 18:16       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-02  1:11       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-02  1:31         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-02  2:45           ` Yilkal Argaw
2022-10-02 11:34           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-02 12:44             ` João Távora
2022-10-02 14:05               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-02 14:42                 ` João Távora
2022-10-02 15:03                   ` Manuel Uberti
2022-10-02 15:08                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-12 11:32                       ` Robert Weiner
2022-10-12 11:55                         ` Po Lu
2022-10-12 13:25                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-12 13:42                             ` Po Lu
2022-10-12 14:03                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-02 19:54                     ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2022-10-02 22:17                       ` Tim Cross
2022-10-04  1:00                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-02 15:52                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-02 20:07                     ` João Távora
2022-10-03 11:21                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-02 21:30                 ` Tim Cross
2022-10-03 11:06                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-03 12:34                     ` João Távora
2022-10-03 13:18                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-03 16:35                         ` João Távora
2022-10-03 17:06                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-04  1:01             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04  7:02               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-04 11:27                 ` Tim Cross
2022-10-06 10:24             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-06 14:11               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-10-06 22:09               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-01 21:57     ` Tim Cross
2022-10-03  1:07       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-03  1:13         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-04  1:01           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04  1:01           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04  2:43             ` Po Lu
2022-10-04  7:06             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-04 17:39               ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04 18:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-05 21:35                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-05 23:21                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-07 22:49                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-06  0:13                     ` Tim Cross
2022-10-06  0:38                       ` Po Lu
2022-10-06  1:18                         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-06  6:17                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 22:50                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-07 22:50                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-08 18:18                         ` chad
2022-10-09  0:35                           ` Po Lu
2022-10-09 14:21                             ` chad
2022-10-06  0:13                     ` Tim Cross
2022-10-06  0:36                     ` Po Lu
2022-10-06  5:57                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 22:49                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-07 23:20                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-04 22:01                 ` Tim Cross
2022-10-05 10:57                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-10-05 13:17                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-05 14:46                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-10-05 15:55                         ` Alexander Adolf
2022-10-06 22:06                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-06 22:08                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-06 22:30                         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-06 23:42                           ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2022-10-07 22:49                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-05  3:01                 ` Po Lu
2022-10-07 22:48                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-05 10:43             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-10-06 22:09               ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-07  6:34                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 10:12                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-07 11:27                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 11:38                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-07 11:48                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 12:03                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-07 12:09                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 12:34                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-07 15:03                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-07 22:03                                   ` Tim Cross
2022-10-08  5:32                                     ` tomas
2022-10-08  6:52                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-08  7:20                                         ` tomas
2022-10-08 16:10                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-10-08 22:17                                 ` Alexander Adolf
2022-10-09  3:32                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-11 21:15                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-11 21:54                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-12 13:21                                         ` Alexander Adolf
2022-10-12 22:02                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-08 22:34                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-09  4:38                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-09  4:57                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-09  6:07                                     ` Theodor Thornhill
2022-10-09  7:56                                     ` Tim Cross
2022-10-10 22:03                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-09 12:44                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-09 13:30                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-09 14:09                                       ` Felician Nemeth
2022-10-09 14:15                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-09 14:45                                           ` Felician Nemeth
2022-10-09 15:25                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-14  9:55                                               ` João Távora
2022-10-11 21:15                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-12  6:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-12  6:37                                         ` Yuan Fu
2022-10-12  7:15                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-12  9:24                                             ` Tim Cross
2022-10-12 23:19                                               ` Yuan Fu
2022-10-13  0:17                                                 ` Tim Cross
2022-10-13  0:26                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2022-10-12 23:05                                             ` Yuan Fu
2022-10-12 10:50                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-12 22:58                                             ` Yuan Fu
2022-10-14  9:59                                             ` João Távora
2022-10-13  0:41                                           ` Stephen Leake
2022-10-13  6:03                                             ` Stephen Leake
2022-10-12 13:34                                       ` Michael Albinus
2022-10-10 22:05                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-11  9:24                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-11  9:44                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2022-10-11 17:19                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-12 22:01                                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-13  0:47                                             ` Stephen Leake
2022-10-13  6:59                                               ` Theodor Thornhill
2022-10-13  8:59                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-13 10:37                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-13 10:20                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2022-10-13 10:35                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-13 16:11                                                   ` Theodor Thornhill
2022-10-14  3:56                                                     ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-10-13 22:25                                                   ` Tim Cross
2022-10-03  1:55         ` Po Lu
2022-10-03  3:28           ` Tim Cross
2022-10-03 16:30         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-04  1:02           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04  7:00             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-04 17:39               ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04 18:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-07 22:50                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-08  6:42                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-14  9:45                       ` João Távora
2022-10-03 19:57         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-04  1:03           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04  1:40             ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-30 10:31 ` Po Lu
2022-09-30 10:52   ` Eglot manual (Was: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias?) João Távora
2022-09-30 10:32 ` Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? João Távora
2022-09-30 10:46 ` Daniel Martín
2022-09-30 10:50   ` Daniel Martín
2022-09-30 13:19     ` Po Lu
2022-09-30 13:18   ` Po Lu
2022-09-30 13:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-09-30 14:48   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-10-02  7:21 ` Christopher M. Miles
     [not found] ` <m28rlywurw.fsf@numbchild>
2022-10-04  2:08   ` Christopher M. Miles
     [not found]   ` <m28rlwjpx3.fsf@numbchild@gmail.com>
2022-10-04  5:25     ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-10-04 17:39       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-04 21:30         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-04 22:06           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-04 22:31             ` Tim Cross
2022-10-05 23:25               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-10-07 22:47             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-05  2:59           ` Po Lu
2022-10-05  8:41         ` Simon Leinen
2022-10-05 13:21           ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-10-05 10:09         ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-10-04  5:25 ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-10-04  7:43   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-04  8:54     ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-10-04  9:57     ` João Távora
2022-10-04 11:15       ` Gerd Möllmann
2022-10-04 15:19   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-10-06 23:29 ` Stefan Kangas
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-09-30  8:54 Payas Relekar
2022-10-04 10:10 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2022-10-08  9:33 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.

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