From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2022 11:34:02 +0000 Message-ID: <8735c6tq6t.fsf@posteo.net> References: <83pmfdduix.fsf@gnu.org> <86sfk7hse3.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7462"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Richard Stallman To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 02 13:35:29 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oexFo-0001lC-Ih for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:35:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38044 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oexFn-000130-3g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oexEb-0000K4-SB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 07:34:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:60625) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oexEZ-00043P-R7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 07:34:13 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06E9424002C for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 13:34:08 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1664710449; bh=6T/JUWIJ+IrmxybabkyoyqAcI6uWtffJwTSMdE1k1Os=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=eT34ODMgJDtriauE1jiJbC/N6YuvvJrjb6elEM1Z4TlLi1NmKIe0vkIH04a5sC3X2 Rub2vicl9dn+D86ZPGGJBU316xW1resLc0kkgF49t72rUXb347B9QDZKY9n4wQQCPA 1Acnqo9lciuyMWtMuEDxmLeg5ZfRwINn0toyJWIb9ayv/2S9E9mkjyGaT4cgPvWEBW HPAAeYTHmQnmFXZhSjlTzf7hPLGtf+98b4Am7LBv8vMAvuaiU8xIUFktD2IkkatrgH UUkbWOLPKED1iVUcaRrhGfKAkOY08TMuejDp+cVghXuaoRwCPaNI4ImFEVSKEgCncz hqyCZ34W4a3Gg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4MgMLS3mWKz6tnY; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 13:34:08 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <86sfk7hse3.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Sun, 02 Oct 2022 12:31:10 +1100") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296598 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> Can anyone suggest a way to describe the job that Eglot does, NOT >> using technical jargon, or implementation details such as "LSP"? Some ideas of the top of my head: - ide-mode - integrated-development-mode - {smart,intelligent,clever}-mode - programming-mode - syntax-mode I don't even think it is necessary to rename the implementation as long as at least one auto-loaded alias is available. > Isn't that the crux of the issue - it seems nobody has any suggestion > any better than eglot. Quite a few of the suggestion are worse. Which ones were worse? The only one I recall was "Elsp", as it is just one letter away from "Elisp". > One thing you could do is just call the package eglot-lsp, which might > give you the additional name info you seem to desire. The package > namespace could remain eglot-*, so perhaps would not have the overhead > and delay to release of Emacs 29 which a full rename would cause. > Personally, I would just stick with eglot as I think this whole argument > regarding the need for package names to describe their functionality is > misguided. Great if you can do it, but should not be a necessity. > > In general, it seems only very simple and single purpose packages lend > themselves to clear descriptive names. For example, tempo, skeleton and > flycheck. I wouldn't say that tempo or skeleton are descriptive... > Few packages which perform multiple functions seem to have the > sort of descriptive name you are after. The name closest to function I > can think of for eglot would be lsp-client, but that is too close to > lsp-mode and in general, too close to 'lisp' and 'elisp'. Using the full > name i.e. language-server-protocol-client is cumbersome, we be shortened > in actual use and will likely result in confusion with lsp-mode. > > A good name is the one which you can easily remember and > communicate. Once you are told what eglot does, you will remember > it. You don't need its function to be in the name. I've said it before, but "eglot" is a particularly bad name in this respect and harder to memorise. The idea behind the name (Emacs polyGLOT) is not intuitive. Upon hearing it for the first time you might as well think it is called "egg-lot" or "iglot", it is easy to misread it as "elgot". All of which make about as much sense to someone who is learning about this for the first time. Either way, I see this as a particularly short-sighted way to look at the issue. It might be the easier option right now, but I expect many users in the future to stumble over this issue for no reason at all.