From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 15:49:27 +0800 Message-ID: <8734xcrapk.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87pm0hsxcv.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h6ltst6p.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39114"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , Alan Mackenzie , Dmitry Gutov , =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar , emacs-devel To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 08:50:40 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ilM-000A0x-EA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:50:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ikW-0008WT-8Z; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 02:49:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ikQ-0008W2-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 02:49:42 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.82]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ikO-0005Fl-6a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 02:49:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1699688977; bh=6gP+yXwwYxw+6B08emCulV/vekgGpagnctS8x95XM/4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=IVQb79gbe2EFC/LiVKUWJFinbf/Zl1trpd7evGuLlpcu9rEJxQfa4YJPBBMtbKU4Au9Qi3Rblzf9gk3sqjEGoJFIIt9lb+tts3EH5NKjCL8p5qYRlM2e/YhtgYkAV0hkC6yqzq4JM2T5kGVAg/ThHvvz6JTaOQ4d6N5tnszot/s2JCm0EE7iwBenD+9vWzbgqDFtU/K3AzjwSHKFcqJACimvl3CoxWzGZNPrbognLAJtFEXVxWyjN//mV0sPo8y3hGGsznzMjRa1JsaDAOBPY66s/MfZaePDorVwAVeZyo6B6W2nre8Ptx9jTsfxyX5D8GaLUe65sLaKDrxhURaSZA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1699688977; bh=7YS2jG0JxZKmMUNImjWWtVr9LV+yRgCWAk0nGbLJzVq=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=tVx5CXQ/6ssVhKogK5iLN4DoxNnYp1vByd9/FGeYZlvidrZw6AaEFz8mahR52milanl7k3Dj2p2iEPhMR+xoHyCNxlNATAY3Z3HlSjjL+ENyDigT1B1PVkRVDT4jJ9U8ITBWJOtw4OtnG4YMD6RpnTqvH/TNnx6BbSzEifjppVVc4O19buXkJT0laxJcM/NGNLj+mZW2IrvPadb8jQL7zGBK4CQ06antW4leGM6V2pixkg1erKie4KqzGTlewMRHisDZw7iOHYU8h8yX0s335HCLRbMJoMHJyZfSHmzqcV9YkJCloxN6unEqIJsHnVGZiGu3zQ0jmk++pW/hOZw5kQ== X-YMail-OSG: WN3z4qYVM1mgdohsP9aQktuQdK_J.n93dh55BTXWr5_u39H_x.drZxTsvAUCWPz 6xP9pCDTJ0fU23.nu3drKVWnHL8fDHpBbJzAuLJ70PYA6HMZAUte19v92XooETjNv8OGNBTFYXQ_ VN_wT9YpxIvd2Ln_gSXKJOSRq4ON8nXD0DZuQ8miOkurYFzv1yXi7IGaZrO3sygLV1WXfcr0D84o kf4ANcc6Gf4IWmHXuYDQK6vbi7Lu25EU8Pf_Ll4sqLOH5aWoeylZqH7imZddNrL_KIbwSRJsXC93 iVY0KBM.tUnxsT.zR1ZBs6mcYU9g3TOyIchQ9GWtzwpXKE13h44jymDYShhqc286dVADHpncx1rR cTNolHozhf0pGNaBuu.fc40fJTUKUV0LnmHxiosPciGPvIF_TXGRnIqNn4NW_RwRmDVe1LJtm5jM QksGUUADbEe1rVqea85A8neyK0ihPRl4QDo2txM2o.KdVNBgF4.bUDtJwVI6yBCZv0htTCiZfN3B WzZokNg1cEoXGVoeqzALtFjU5t530aRHMM72UVg5BvwbjYj_kZVZZ8GzOfXKGveU83Xcmiwn.DsN Z8eunnQCb8lvYh.s8MCovEEhELYYoMx8EIp8wQH5rbHWOIz8X_0YUAHPxML0N4fsS3Vb6DEpY1GR PdlAmyUZgUtNRf.NPafo6PUaPf8XDc3FKly3DOPAli5kZVrSmtkQkgd.22vGd1o_Vj2v6vEf3VVm zCFI4oQ9tC4TtwZHUFIlndktjmEXPJBjk1POVIKZeZAYq_BXCuwCxxk2XNkdL1Eslh6N7dUvDK5E 4jooA5gUpJE8GKI3IaUyRnwnRet8YusAPn4MI1q8EW X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 3a30e191-a583-4204-8f91-81493854daff Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 07:49:37 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-8696d769c6-r64c6 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 563d3d9253451a8a72f971c0b2de219b; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 07:49:32 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: ("Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 07:34:49 +0100") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.82; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312531 Archived-At: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > Aha, but seq/map are okay because they are preloaded. > I guess I don't have to understand everything. I don't think they are, but their incursion into our code is accomplished fact. So we can only bow to fate...