From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: ELPA packages and Org mode integration (was: [ELPA] New package: jami-bot and org-jami-bot) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:30:09 +0000 Message-ID: <8734v3khvi.fsf@localhost> References: <875y0i7e43.fsf@hoowl.se> <83sf37p4ji.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21649"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 16:27:51 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNwyF-0005PF-8f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:27:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNwxX-00083U-0h; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:27:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNwxU-00083E-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:27:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNwxR-0008Lj-5O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:27:03 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 220B4240029 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:26:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1704986819; bh=hAp5Bk74F7Np47jfCFd+KyR2GTmqUSxafuJMGeegOmo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=I4OJx7ZXrSFccq3vvSU+cmsNKQIktBp/fc1uthz0lGU0aX7V1FWE5jPCjiOizk2/A Csl7/4ftFXzHPnLChvv6yg3IhYW3IF2h03DPLQ8rpftDxjmZCM7v6hvHEMw8xVBafr B2vbgPM/8TwZyINfC+0TQspwq8epR7PS2tJSSFOYeOjmbOS/LNWpI470QrzbzpaTZu LqguyfU8Ry43sEBXN7XinGfCWOvqHLiTAZ6ZzrQqz+j69r1m4A5xhiA9tbcBmRVYE4 25xDdDAM2CrtkfV8e+6NriJdphQgf/LmISmAFSP4v2YcX0dOyb/yLIe71lNk1WpbYL l0b5AB6IEfwDw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4T9pS22Y0Pz6tyJ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:26:58 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314857 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > Emacs already shows the effects of many years of the bad practice of > integrating various new features specifically with Org, not with Emacs > generally. As a result, they are available only to those who use Org > mode. There are no efforts to generalize these features so they are > not limited to Org. > > We must therefore insist that every new feature XYZ which CAN be > modularly separate from Org, be implemented as modularly separate from > Org. People who want to use XYZ and Org together should be able to do > so -- but people who want to use the one without the other should also > be able to do so. > > In other words, if XYZ doesn't inherently _have_ to be limited to Org, > it must not be limited to Org. > > Please join me in insisting on this modularity. I have no issue with a push towards better support of Emacs-wide facilities. However, I strongly oppose the idea to reject ELPA submissions for packages that utilize the existing Org mode interfaces. Rejecting ELPA is not a solution - if implementing non-Org interface is hard, this will not encourage package authors to do the work, but instead push them towards other package repositories like MELPA. A side effect of more MELPA submissions will be fewer authors with copyright assignment - this is a co-lateral damage. > In other words, if XYZ doesn't inherently _have_ to be limited to Org, > it must not be limited to Org. This statement only makes sense for the Org mode features that should better be a part of Emacs proper. Rather than prohibiting ELPA packages from using these features, please encourage contributors to work towards extracting them into Emacs code. This will be more constructive. Do not place barriers, encourage improvements. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at