From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Objed maintenance Date: Fri, 03 May 2024 05:49:33 +0000 Message-ID: <8734qza1hu.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87ttjhpfue.fsf@posteo.net> <5dc8b803-e6d1-418c-9621-bd2373eeeb8e@alphapapa.net> <87plu4hhuj.fsf@posteo.net> <87o79o5eej.fsf@posteo.net> <0e804902-9ba6-4c8b-8221-efc9de858336@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21114"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 03 07:50:12 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1s2loC-0005F7-DJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 07:50:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s2lnr-0005RX-Uo; Fri, 03 May 2024 01:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s2lnh-0005Qv-92 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 01:49:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s2lne-0001Xx-0v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 May 2024 01:49:40 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5476240101 for ; Fri, 3 May 2024 07:49:34 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1714715374; bh=YHQpaKJ4y81qNSUdZhMvHJd189sAeH4Xv5LusueYjKE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:From; b=hG9UaInHaGID8UPvMC1Ks/KrzzrdYgaLqrvYartB4gwXTVOTHywsqE3WZZNuwtCst kdr6hQleixFV3sAfxW0wczDUI99eKslNvsPfhGo5ySNIEssaHye25DqbmCp00qy7ck +C7lBkyOnkdTRCDgEY7w+Je7OTEj1bBqt9E4JDeXoKhPpwP08eI7e1f/NZNd5GQMI6 JdxDhh5IeuviLhqhogAb90YD6ecu5dZ67VB5NoBlwtHIibfqfz7EYBMHZs4qu4VTI0 FHG0brf8B1stVB/LnMU4to2i7XUFQOo/j3wa9yTS2eM/EnI139F/dtemMh9i1n8qSG WrRxlwrQLmcHg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VW0Hd720Bz6tsf; Fri, 3 May 2024 07:49:33 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <0e804902-9ba6-4c8b-8221-efc9de858336@alphapapa.net> (Adam Porter's message of "Thu, 2 May 2024 23:06:01 -0500") OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:318631 Archived-At: Adam Porter writes: > Hi Philip, > > On 5/2/24 12:09, Philip Kaludercic wrote: >> Adam Porter writes: >> >>> On 5/2/24 01:02, Philip Kaludercic wrote: >>>> Adam Porter writes: >>>> >>>>> Hi Philip, >>>>> >>>>>> Abstractly: My advice is my advice, it is inherently biased. >>>>>> I take that position, because of my experience, which is why >>>>>> I refuse to install packages with more than 1-~2 transitive >>>>>> dependencies (I was recently once again shocked by "ement"). >>>>> Would you please explain what you mean here? >>>> Just that I recently wanted to try out ement, but decided not to >>>> do so when I saw the list of dependencies. >>> I don't understand. There are only a few, and they're all on GNU >>> ELPA. Which ones do you object to, and why? >> I am trying to give Amy an example of why to avoid dependencies, >> because people like me don't look at >> Requires: emacs-27.1, map-2.1, persist-0.5, plz-0.6, taxy-0.10, >> taxy-magit-section-0.13, svg-lib-0.2.5, transient-0.3.7 >> and say it is only a few, if my limit is at 1-2 /transitive/ >> dependencies. (In addition to that, you know that I have strong >> opinions on Emacs package names and do not what to install a package >> called "taxy", even though I know that this is probably just my >> opinion). > > Thanks for explaining your view. > > Of note, one of those dependencies is Emacs itself, and two others are > included with Emacs, i.e. map and transient. That leaves 5 ELPA > dependencies: persist is commonly used and works very well (and until > multisession is improved a bit further, it seems like a better > choice); plz is now a stable, reliable library that's becoming more > widely used; svg-lib, by Nicolas Rougier, is very useful for what it > does, but it could be made an optional dependency, I suppose. > > That leaves taxy and taxy-magit-section, which are fundamental to the > room list feature and its dynamic, user-programmable grouping. The > name "taxy" is short for "taxonomy" (which might seem to imply a > biological purpose), or "taxonomical-programmable-grouping" (which > would be a bit long). > > If the name puts you off so much as to not even let it be installed as > a dependency, and to explore what functionality it offers (which IMHO > is unique and powerful), that is a bit disappointing to hear--if I > removed the software with unusual or non-obvious names on my system, > we wouldn't be having this conversation--but to each his own. I refused to use grep at first, and it took me a bit to get over that inhibition. There have been multiple packages I decided not to install after apt/dnf/... displayed the dependencies it would install. This is not to defend my position, or a call to change my mind. I just want to illustrate that people like me exist and that I'd appreciate it if these preferences aren't totally ignored. BTW. I checked on my one non-development laptop, and all the recursive dependencies I have installed were by Magit. > --Adam -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine