From: Jeremy Bryant <jb@jeremybryant.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>,
dancol@dancol.org, acm@muc.de, stefankangas@gmail.com,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:26:47 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <8734p03e94.fsf@jeremybryant.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <867cefeo1w.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 23 Jun 2024 17:22:51 +0300")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>,
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 22:15:59 +0800
>>
>> Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:
>>
>> > I don't trust that many such users exist, and even if they did,
>> > providing default keybindings for these keys will not somehow override
>> > the keybindings you install yourself.
>>
>> Sure. And more users stand to benefit from Windmove commands if they
>> are bound to C-x 4, than if they were required to bind such commands
>> themselves, commands defined by a package that is already of marginal
>> interest? What extraordinary logic!
>>
>> > This attitude is why Doom Emacs exists. A live software project is one
>> > that changes. A dead one prioritizes stasis over user experience.
>>
>> Since Doom Emacs exists and is Free Software, why are users not at
>> liberty to install it and bid farewell to reaction and "stasis" in Emacs
>> development? And why is it a matter for our consideration whether we
>> fail or succeed in competing with them? Any mention of "competition"
>> with an Emacs package is already a contradiction in terms.
>>
>> > Nothing we're talking about here will disturb your custom
>> > keybindings. Your experience will work just as it did before. The only
>> > difference is that users who don't have custom bindings for the arrow
>> > keys under C-x 4 will get windmove functionality if they don't
>> > customize the bindings.
>>
>> Spoken like a true intellectual, in the face of a real-life example to
>> the contrary.
>
> This dispute begins to spill into the not-so-nice area, so I think it
> is time for those who already made their opinions abundantly clear to
> stop, and let people who have not yet spoken do so.
>
> It is clear that Daniel thought years ago we should have key bindings
> for windmove, and still thinks so, and Stefan Monnier agrees with him.
> It is also clear that Alan and Po Lu think we shouldn't. Now let's
> hear from others, and please leave it to the Emacs maintainers to
> decide what to do with this after we've heard enough opinions.
Here for another opinion on the narrow topic of the proposed bindings.
I originally set up the C-x 4 bindings on Daniel's suggestion in the
original thread (~2021):
1.
I also find that C-x 4 is indeed logical, which makes it easier to remember
2.
C-x 4 .. works on the terminal/console. This is important for
preserving functionality of Emacs.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-06-25 21:26 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 249+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-08-21 19:10 Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Daniel Colascione
2021-08-21 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21 19:27 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-21 19:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-22 8:35 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-21 19:42 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-25 13:12 ` Kaushal Modi
2021-08-21 20:20 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 6:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-22 8:32 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 13:43 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-08-22 0:43 ` Phil Sainty
2021-08-22 5:13 ` Teemu Likonen
2021-08-22 9:22 ` Teemu Likonen
2021-08-21 19:26 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 8:37 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-22 14:05 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 19:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-22 17:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-22 22:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-08-23 5:16 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2021-08-24 21:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-25 3:42 ` Richard Stallman
2024-06-21 19:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-21 20:39 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 10:05 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 11:14 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 12:05 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 12:30 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 13:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 13:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 20:55 ` chad
2024-06-23 16:32 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 12:57 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 13:40 ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 13:45 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:15 ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 7:41 ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-24 12:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-24 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 15:09 ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-24 15:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-25 1:41 ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-24 15:57 ` Petteri Hintsanen
2024-06-25 21:26 ` Jeremy Bryant [this message]
2024-06-26 11:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 11:44 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 13:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 13:57 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 15:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 15:49 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-28 19:47 ` Hovav Shacham
2024-06-28 20:45 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-29 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 1:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-26 13:22 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 13:51 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 14:13 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:21 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 15:15 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 15:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 15:42 ` Colin Baxter
2024-06-26 16:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 14:41 ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-26 15:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 14:49 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 17:02 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-26 14:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 15:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 13:53 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 14:48 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 14:51 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 15:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-27 15:35 ` Augusto Stoffel
2024-06-26 17:02 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 6:28 ` Visuwesh
2024-06-23 14:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:37 ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:45 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-24 10:35 ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-23 16:32 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 13:48 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:14 ` Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out [was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove] tomas
2024-06-23 14:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 15:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 15:34 ` tomas
2024-06-23 19:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 21:12 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-25 14:28 ` [External] : Re: Telemetry, opt-in, opt-out " Madhu
2024-06-25 17:19 ` Drew Adams
2024-06-25 23:03 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide via Emacs development discussions.
2024-06-28 4:02 ` Richard Stallman
2024-06-28 5:28 ` Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out " Ihor Radchenko
2024-06-28 6:33 ` tomas
2024-06-23 14:25 ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:38 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 15:24 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 15:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 16:32 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 19:10 ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-23 13:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 14:06 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 16:32 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 18:51 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 19:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 19:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 21:12 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 20:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-23 21:12 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 21:09 ` Drew Adams
2024-06-23 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 20:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-23 20:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 21:12 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-24 2:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 10:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-24 11:45 ` Po Lu
2024-06-25 2:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 3:29 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-06-24 4:23 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-24 7:18 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-06-24 14:46 ` Drew Adams
2024-06-24 6:32 ` Juri Linkov
2024-06-26 15:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 20:38 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-27 5:16 ` Attitude (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-27 12:19 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 1:29 ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Stefan Kangas
2024-07-01 10:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 10:47 ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 11:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 13:20 ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 18:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 0:52 ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 11:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 13:28 ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 13:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 19:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 21:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 22:07 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 1:00 ` Po Lu
2024-07-02 3:26 ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 4:34 ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 5:59 ` C-o Gerd Möllmann
2024-07-02 6:23 ` C-o Visuwesh
2024-07-02 12:51 ` C-o Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 13:06 ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 13:39 ` C-o Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:02 ` C-o Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-03 9:24 ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-03 11:33 ` C-o Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-03 12:15 ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 14:02 ` C-o T.V Raman
2024-07-02 15:36 ` C-o Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 22:27 ` C-o Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2024-07-02 22:31 ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Stefan Kangas
2024-07-02 22:44 ` C-o Jeremy Bryant
2024-07-03 10:07 ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Per Starbäck
2024-07-03 12:48 ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-03 16:24 ` C-o Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 16:32 ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-05 4:14 ` C-o Richard Stallman
2024-07-05 4:28 ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-03 19:13 ` C-o Bob Rogers
2024-07-02 7:28 ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Philip Kaludercic
2024-07-02 11:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 1:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 1:51 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 2:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 3:47 ` Drew Adams
2024-07-02 22:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-07-02 1:47 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
[not found] ` <87h6d87op5.fsf@dancol.org>
2024-07-02 13:08 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 14:43 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-01 18:12 ` [External] : Re: Proposal: new default bindings for windmove. [Working minor mode] Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 18:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-04 2:26 ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Richard Stallman
2024-07-01 23:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 1:02 ` Po Lu via Emacs development discussions.
2024-07-02 2:03 ` Howard Melman
2024-07-02 12:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 3:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 4:14 ` Po Lu
2024-07-02 13:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 13:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 14:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 12:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 12:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 13:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 13:53 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 14:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:41 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 15:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 22:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03 3:14 ` Hovav Shacham
2024-07-02 6:50 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 8:07 ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-02 16:27 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 11:50 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 16:32 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 16:47 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 12:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 13:31 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 18:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 18:07 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 18:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 18:30 ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-02 20:00 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 21:15 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 22:30 ` Drew Adams
2024-07-03 11:56 ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 13:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-03 14:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03 16:15 ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 16:26 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-03 22:12 ` John ff
2024-07-02 18:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 19:08 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 19:53 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 20:12 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 21:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-03 6:21 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 21:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 18:37 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 20:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03 6:24 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-03 13:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-03 6:56 ` Visuwesh
2024-07-02 7:08 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-07-02 11:46 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 13:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 13:52 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 13:55 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 14:42 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 15:36 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 11:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 23:20 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-07-03 1:19 ` Liu Hui
2024-06-23 6:59 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-22 18:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-08-22 7:37 Boruch Baum
2024-07-02 16:36 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
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