From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Physical keyboard events Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:03:00 +0800 Message-ID: <8734k6jxvf.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <31bdc55d-8c13-4de0-9cef-bd6cc4fb033f@imayhem.com> <19ab52d0-88bd-4378-8fa8-8603e01233e3@imayhem.com> <871pzrl4sn.fsf@yahoo.com> <86ldxzuohg.fsf@gnu.org> <877c9jjc93.fsf@yahoo.com> <865xp3ueoq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26047"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: cpardo@imayhem.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 05 02:04:09 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1t87zN-0006gO-DI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 02:04:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t87ye-0001HI-1S; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 20:03:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t87yX-0001Gb-9H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 20:03:17 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.33]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t87yT-0002FJ-EE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 20:03:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1730768589; bh=qx1kDmbjHW4OYeyJYBRieBnH66xmPk2xqVxtN+LyHqQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=euIdE4bLoOGuO3r6M8iQfA90iaX2PfR4RSFfDlFSVjLzeCS5oHzBKIndaC/9F7F3SwDmR6T0Zs6OykRXpji4XpYbF7smjv1oKSqt33TuPKgQZ9bcVMZdOPXi2k1gydV68L7HsNPyuOq1RGYFh6udJTorIp8q9GBaBIeG5AIgw5h70kaYETCbm5eZBwrlFPHxOyJlXcDjpB+pdTxMsm0jLQqA537TuYWk8UN8lykvy7yZcv5Fonh79j4nDymqbiAnh2r2HSE2TUlHbCsmgmD38CnUmZ3P4kWdOhb5AtaDScueSIDRrF1T2MSBHWXI2S8CgeayNeoDvMBXtLFf37tMAg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1730768589; bh=QE8/rwri0pndbUxAdaz2dZqxyZ5m3xyD0uE15o2KSjD=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=Ug8LSrrYAV2PCMHxKCEjogSeEh31IdoTe05P3iYlbtUraKEl64B1VxySbsNWb3sMTCXH4NXvAstpHqiFDO1L7fFnflbS2oaNYcOHp915ULAdZAEW9JfXTUJBXTozXL5/jhy/8ehMEPLsznVpu0XF/RJzEAbczDTzIpGiDHa1CuStJtcBhIMd003m9iBU/wQfxVY+i+NI265HMZBKsrvpCfl1dTJ7i7KeVyTOkQZx5BcvftlJyZ00PyDFj0vYoYi3MeE5hUYb7Jn/qCiiUxcODDvW//5aFKFo49wmcFgt8uCmgu8a5of70Lbg1GOAcCAU6HmFQKiX6qR2bnslhk8JAw== X-YMail-OSG: 3ouB148VM1kuXN5CiIypYXBFaLT6TvmiiLP41Dvc9T5TMCQ0TUMEesr8dj_UwFH Acn5XQbcUg9bJxGuYt.ytUnCnrJG5FzuhETFjA00krN2qhoFM2BLOjyztbVAalQ8at4uozHklsi3 cyMdoaCACQSHF7iIg3y511IvMFFpx3h.kSv0FOY_5dkQiQoYs1o.FqtvDixt6.8p.gyli5eJDSIV ItempFUfkorerh6ZjTHa1ugzbXLIVh3qjTDjoMI.lN5w.XtKKWZfuFSSwnwXBSArH2HXrUbZmGYd 9e1MfRb97Hp0cpp.WFD5W613GNQCXJbxODXkiEpl7D0Ewe9ZJ6yJj3Q8LPWSclfMyJR7MSJ0L2j0 DXl_0Nvs3P14.6WDweXf6X_R7wqFeGOwYatDmJaWVt5jUIg_.4M2h67.mbUIL5lupyXlyP0f9B9M Hk5EAUgIkPUh9fArEe8lro6dFLGo3FXulKhhNyL44EL5NZhpOH1d_kjj45jC0sVso41t9vW5vYFv YQ0dGzyXxYCmujmu.e_G0T2yGRacH4GctaFu3mQsF8cHo4VNAwL2ec76K2Mu2AAdDWm4iD2k0x0H iE3LeS00SZReKSGx1D1b9oi5u5dCbRsgiGxCKtjCrvJQCO92yu602PytG3AIkIeibR6DfaiufXPZ W33JKoo52YiyZVMcYAnV.0Xf1FPWzdbjuECj8dUgrMd0b2C.2NeFBxc47m0IvVjVH5iLkfz9.QIc S4f9L8wj_snABbWo1jaxxxkHD_59nNARAqnzJrmUlJ76G9i1b5zWBEs4CAVK3jlE.dInw4jE0CsJ wGSxjXen.8DZiWQTbNyfO.cpy_QnJJXg3ZYS320nHj X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 475ac9e0-c2e4-4813-81a6-0bff68dbfc8b Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 01:03:09 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-5b7954b588-f8smd (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d70f0ceb0c68d9602f6cf2c2e7937586; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 01:03:04 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <865xp3ueoq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 04 Nov 2024 18:49:41 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22806 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.33; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325125 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Po Lu >> Cc: cpardo@imayhem.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2024 22:37:44 +0800 >> >> Emacs already tries to establish a sensible relationship between >> modifier bits and Emacs modifiers, and clearly, the reasonable way >> forward is to write a small quantity of code to deduce the modifier bits >> produced by a keysym, and reuse the existing mechanism to report a >> modifier that users will expect, instead of engineering a different >> mechanism for the purposes of reporting modifier activation and >> deactivation, or, as Cecilio's patch currently does, reporting keysyms >> totally independent of the modifiers actually bound to their keys. > > I can see a place for both. It all depends on what the Lisp program > wants to do. So I guess we should allow Lisp programs to receive one > or the other. What _is_ the place for the second? Binding commands to a modifier key is possible whatever may be the name of the key to which they are bound (alt or meta). Besides, the patch as written doesn't implement either behavior reliably, because it tests against a few specific keysym names, which is not a reliable means of detecting modifier keys on X. >> >> BTW, if the intention is to forward just modifier key events to Lisp, >> >> don't let's refer to them as "physical keyboard events", but in more >> >> specific terms. >> > >> > Yes, I think the idea is to generate modifier key events and expose >> > them to Lisp. What is more specific than "physical keyboard events"? >> >> "Modifier activation and release events", perhaps? > > That's a mouthful. How about "low-level keyboard events"? This still misleadingly implies that keys beyond modifiers will be reported.