From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Blunderbuss ".dir-locals.el" raises everything in its path!! Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:22:17 +0900 Message-ID: <871volkspy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20090712144137.GB2524@muc.de> <87hbxhony6.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <87k52dycha.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20090712212103.GB1009@muc.de> <8763dx6wi9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247466265 28480 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2009 06:24:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:24:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Chong Yidong , Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 13 08:24:18 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MQExV-0004JF-RB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:24:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49694 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MQExV-0001Cm-8S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:24:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MQExP-0001Ch-P8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:24:11 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MQExK-0001CV-K3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:24:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=56925 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MQExK-0001CS-Cr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:48703) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MQExH-00012q-C9; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:24:03 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51F81537B5; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:24:00 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 769821A3002; Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:22:17 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" 5bbff3553494 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112395 Archived-At: Miles Bader writes: > Chong Yidong writes: > >> ! These settings can override those made by a user in his .emacs so > >> ! you should be careful not to set variables which are a matter of > >> ! personal choice. You should probably not set @code{c-file-syle} > >> ! and @code{c-file-offsets} here (@pxref{File Styles,,,ccmode}). > > > > But I think we have a basic disagreement here. A user should feel > > free to set directory local variables that override his or her .emacs > > settings---exactly like he or she should feel free to write file-local > > variables. The manual has no purpose telling people what to do with > > their own files. I don't understand what you are saying. The manual has done that forever! There is specific advice *not* to set auto-fill mode in local variables, for example. And there is good reason for that. Files are *not* "of the user". Files are a means of communication. Sometimes indeed they are memos to oneself in the future, but more often they are for communicating with others. The issue Alan is raising is precisely that *somebody else* is overriding the user's settings. I agree with Miles: > It also seems downright bizarre to tell people not to set c-file-style > in .dir-settings.el -- my sense is that most developers would agree that > if a project has C style conventions, they should override the user's > personal preferences... Indeed. I think that needs to be sorted out here is Alan's intuition that C style conventions are a matter of personal preference. IMO if they are, that's because the user himself is the Benevolent Dictator for his project, and "everybody has a right to choose to follow personal preferences, as long as that person is the dictator". :) Now that's only my opinion, but it seems to be Miles's, and whoever wrote the .dir-locals.el in question, and .... :)