From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Wherein I argue for the inclusion of libnettle in Emacs 24.5 Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:07:16 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <871tzjf2m3.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87ha8f3jt1.fsf@building.gnus.org> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1391519258 28907 80.91.229.3 (4 Feb 2014 13:07:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 13:07:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 04 14:07:45 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WAfj5-0003eF-Dq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 14:07:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52457 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WAfj4-0003eG-Ux for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:07:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41777) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WAfiw-0003dy-KT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:07:40 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WAfiq-0008CB-84 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:07:34 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:54152) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WAfiq-0008C3-11 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:07:28 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WAfip-0003Vh-0v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 14:07:27 +0100 Original-Received: from c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([98.229.61.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 14:07:27 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 14:07:27 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 29 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130008 (Ma Gnus v0.8) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:hJIuv50XT4k4XtcpsrAtnoH6gII= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:169384 Archived-At: On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 22:21:50 -0500 Stefan Monnier wrote: >> 4) FFI is nice for proprietary products, but sub-optimal for free software SM> Linking Emacs at compile-time with all the libraries someone might SM> potentially want to use at some point, leads for example to a Debian SM> package that depends on umpteen libraries. It also forces people to SM> come and lobby here for each one of those libraries since it can only be SM> added to the core, thus slowing down the whole process. ... SM> The current situation is a hindrance to Emacs development. An FFI is SM> not a panacea, of course, but it at least opens up new opportunities. Encryption is not an optional feature, it's a part of the security model (of which Emacs has very little, as a language and as a platform). Without secure primitives we'll forever have the foregone conclusion that the Lisp evaluator can't be secure. In other words, it's really hard to make software optionally secure. So I'll argue that GnuTLS and its dependencies, libnettle+libhogweed, should not be optional libraries. Loosely coupling encryption facilities to the Emacs core is an implicit security risk, however stable the FFI. As long as Stefan and others see encryption as "just another feature" I'm afraid this is an argument I can't win, so I've agreed to wait for FFI and help implement it. But it bothers me very much. Ted