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From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Unibyte characters, strings, and buffers
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 20:42:49 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871txmpn0m.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87ob0qsi7g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>

David Kastrup writes:
 > "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> writes:

 > > But this is a completely different issue from unibyte buffers.  Emacs
 > > doesn't need unibyte buffers to perform its work, and if they are
 > > desirable on the grounds of space or time efficiency, they should be
 > > opaque to Lisp.
 > 
 > Well, Emacs is more following the non-opaque philosophy (XEmacs, in
 > contrast, has even an opaque character type and several other
 > ones).

Those are irrelevant to my point, though.

The problem here is that unibyte buffers are a second representation
of a single type (the buffer).  "Mr. Foot, meet Mr. Bullet, I'm sure
you'll get along fine!"

 > That has the advantage that you can use all sorts of available tools as
 > long as they don't break.

In this case, it's like being offered the hammer head and the handle
separately.  I'll say one thing for that approach, though -- now you
have *two* excellent ways to give yourself a headache, with two
different (musical?) sounds when you drum on your crown!

 > It has the disadvantage that the question "what is the right behavior
 > for x?"  needs to be answered quite more often since you can't take the
 > "x does not apply to y anyway" route out as often.

The right behavior here is for a unibyte buffer to do *exactly* the
same thing that a multibyte buffer would.  In which case you have a
single (opaque) type, as far as users can tell.

 > Efficiency took a dive but the alternatives were just too horrible
 > API-wise.

Unibyte buffer is just too horrible API-wise.  My advice is: nuke it.

Steve



  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-03-28 11:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-03-26 19:04 Buffer-local variables affect general-purpose functions Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-26 19:32 ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-26 20:03   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-26 21:50     ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-27 17:42       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-27 18:55         ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-27 14:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-03-27 17:17   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-27 21:04     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-03-28  7:11       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28  7:46         ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-28  8:18           ` Unibyte characters, strings and buffers Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 18:42             ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-28 18:52               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 19:21                 ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-29  6:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 18:57                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-03-29 19:46                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 20:23                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-03-29 19:34                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-03-28 14:12         ` Buffer-local variables affect general-purpose functions Stefan Monnier
2014-03-28  3:38     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-28  8:51       ` Unibyte characters, strings, and buffers Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 10:28         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-28 10:58           ` David Kastrup
2014-03-28 11:22             ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-28 11:34               ` David Kastrup
2014-03-28 11:42             ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2014-03-28 17:29           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 17:50             ` David Kastrup
2014-03-28 18:31               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 19:25                 ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29  6:43                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29  7:23                     ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29  8:24                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29  8:40                         ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29  9:25                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-28 20:27             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-03-29  9:23             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-29  9:52               ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 10:48                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 11:00                   ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 11:18                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 11:30                       ` Andreas Schwab
     [not found]                         ` <83ha6hduzz.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-03-29 14:30                           ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 14:47                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 10:42               ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29 11:07                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 11:30                   ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29 12:58                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 13:15                       ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29 10:44               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 11:06               ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 11:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 16:11                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-29 15:37                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-29 15:55                   ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29 16:28                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-29 17:00                       ` David Kastrup
2014-03-30  2:05                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-30  9:01                           ` David Kastrup
2014-03-30 12:13                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-30 14:25                             ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-30 15:05                               ` David Kastrup
2014-03-30 15:39                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 17:08                       ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-30  0:24                     ` Richard Stallman
2014-03-30  3:32                       ` Stefan Monnier
2014-03-30 15:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2014-03-29 15:58                   ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 16:35                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-29 17:06                       ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-29 17:01               ` Nathan Trapuzzano
2014-03-29 17:08                 ` Nathan Trapuzzano
2014-03-29 17:18                   ` David Kastrup
2014-03-29 17:33                     ` Nathan Trapuzzano
2014-03-30  0:24                       ` Richard Stallman
2014-03-30  8:38                         ` Andreas Schwab
2014-03-30 15:12                           ` Richard Stallman
2014-03-29 17:16                 ` David Kastrup
2014-03-28 18:45           ` Daniel Colascione
2014-03-28 19:35             ` Glenn Morris
2014-03-29 11:17             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-29 11:22               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-03-29 16:03                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-03-31 15:22                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-01  3:36                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-04-01  7:42                       ` David Kastrup
2014-04-01  9:38                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-04-01 15:19                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-01 15:16                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-02  4:20                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-04-02 17:06                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-03 10:59                             ` David Kastrup
2014-04-03 16:07                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-03 16:26                                 ` David Kastrup
2014-04-03 19:11                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-03 20:03                                     ` David Kastrup
2014-04-04  0:48                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-04-04  8:08                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-04  7:58                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-04 11:40                                     ` Richard Stallman
2014-04-03 13:04                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull

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