From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Florian Weimer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:50:21 +0200 Message-ID: <871tqeo2z6.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87d2a54t1m.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <83lhotme1e.fsf@gnu.org> <871tql17uw.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <838uktm9gw.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9zgarvp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87mw97rjwm.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <8761fvn8io.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <87egujahw6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87wq8bd8w2.fsf@netris.org> <87y4sr909s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87ppe3lbkr.fsf@yeeloong.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413053496 28357 80.91.229.3 (11 Oct 2014 18:51:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 18:51:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup , Richard Stallman , Andreas Schwab , dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii , stephen@xemacs.org To: Mark H Weaver Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 11 20:51:27 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd1lE-0007bS-JW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:51:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55019 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd1lD-000867-QW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:51:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41217) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd1kY-0007Rp-EU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:50:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd1kT-0008MJ-92 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:50:42 -0400 Original-Received: from albireo.enyo.de ([46.237.207.196]:57193) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd1kH-0008Jy-Uj; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:50:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [172.17.203.2] (helo=deneb.enyo.de) by albireo.enyo.de with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) id 1Xd1kE-0004f4-Mb; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:50:22 +0200 Original-Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd1kD-0001uB-Mz; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:50:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87ppe3lbkr.fsf@yeeloong.lan> (Mark H. Weaver's message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2014 19:11:32 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 46.237.207.196 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175265 Archived-At: * Mark H. Weaver: > David Kastrup writes: >> You cannot successfully cater for clueless application programmers. > > It is not "clueless" to expect a UTF-8 encoder to produce valid UTF-8. It doesn't work all that well in practice on systems (like GNU) which are not predominantly Unicode-based. Dealing gracefully with invalid UTF-8 sometimes means producing invalid UTF-8. For example, a backup program needs to be able to save and restore files whose name is not encoded in UTF-8.