From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2014 16:13:55 -0600 Message-ID: <871toge5zw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203192721.GE12748@thyrsus.com> <547F6774.50700@cs.ucla.edu> <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417644906 5759 80.91.229.3 (3 Dec 2014 22:15:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 22:15:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Eric S. Raymond" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 03 23:14:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwICH-0004Lb-KF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 23:14:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43575 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwICH-0002UA-5y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:14:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39012) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwIBQ-0001uu-TR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:14:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwIBK-0006s9-0m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:14:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yk0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c07::233]:37044) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwIBJ-0006rx-SJ; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:13:57 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yk0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 19so7405683ykq.10 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:13:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=pectcxRCXf4YiwgPA/kBqeD1vKIKse84sz7rFNE+8kc=; b=ZDfRZEB+G1VdRRoMitLZ9VxD+GlV4GQp4at2Ho+KyqEzwf79zyvMnDPiU92FgFt0Gf EE0Vj7Jb1+RGbFZBglg8iGAT6shrejzXqYLIwSgTktlglBj+2LC84tvpkj6TpWYNWGC/ m8zgb6rAti+YVQ7MZc2lvx4Yx3gmGOsrFqixOmFUFBWb8O/0s2jRgqYb+Mf9nXMRnW2S BmVzyOaRn+Ks6vhYx7GEfscAxNiTqbeROJKi0oIQHLGf0E8eUJU9IaczUqMiwhUNyoOO RIWsFM7PafDRt2YLnUPgVfJAh8GjIJ+mc8sdcYZhSdgty0aqY/CMqzQU7wOsTI0CVv0p 6xSQ== X-Received: by 10.236.0.200 with SMTP id 48mr8838893yhb.79.1417644837506; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:13:57 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from floss.red-bean.com (64-145-114-106.client.dsl.net. [64.145.114.106]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 21sm15305498yhj.18.2014.12.03.14.13.56 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Wed, 3 Dec 2014 16:14:47 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c07::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178784 Archived-At: "Eric S. Raymond" writes: >For Emacs to attract new developers, its code and the culture need to >be discoverable. As part of this, practice rules need to be *clear*, >*documented*, and *minimal*. Right now they fail all three tests. +1 all over that. For example, as far as I can see -- and I've looked, though maybe in the wrong places -- there's never been a permanent sign anywhere, like on a web page, telling developers when they should commit to release branches versus when they should commit to master (trunk). Sometimes trunk is locked down and most commits are supposed to go to the current emacs-NN branch. Other times it's not locked down. And you're just supposed to know, somehow, I guess by saving random bits of state gleaned from a rather high-traffic mailing list. Emacs is not an easy project for newcomers or drive-by contributors. (And somebody please stop me before I start ranting about debbugs as a primary bug tracker even when email-enabled things like Redmine are available, since it's been discussed elsewhere. Apparently for the Emacs project in 2014, "send email" is still considered an acceptable UI gesture for manipulating a bug ticket.) -K