From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:23:36 +0100 Message-ID: <871tn3szmf.fsf@engster.org> References: <83bnxuzyl4.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbkovhh7.fsf@engster.org> <87387rvobr.fsf@engster.org> <874ms2tsw5.fsf@engster.org> <87r3v5snza.fsf@engster.org> <87mw5ts1d6.fsf@engster.org> <87d26ornxd.fsf@engster.org> <54B0A54B.5080206@siege-engine.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1420885460 28653 80.91.229.3 (10 Jan 2015 10:24:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 10:24:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eric Ludlam Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 10 11:24:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9tDB-0001SW-HW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:24:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54671 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9tDA-0007zM-HD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:24:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9tCw-0007z5-E8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:23:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9tCt-0007Xy-2y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:23:50 -0500 Original-Received: from randomsample.de ([5.45.97.173]:40927) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9tCs-0007Xq-Qc; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:23:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=RPMf+T1qbmFS9KY9AYTUx0XSbdN5wmLOluMYoCDx+n8=; b=GmkihnaUkvaZ5nXTnkuzOKfrECQ52Eh448NvxQjFL9xirSSQPjWmPyvRdj9oM/1tk1DMEKr+YCLOlIx7cMoY5KLQDI9+TWSjbM0UqNCZUKYFavZSI++VpxBSLXrVlWj3; Original-Received: from ip4d154cb9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([77.21.76.185] helo=spaten) by randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9tCp-0002gP-RX; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:23:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <54B0A54B.5080206@siege-engine.com> (Eric Ludlam's message of "Fri, 09 Jan 2015 23:06:35 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.45.97.173 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:181127 Archived-At: Eric Ludlam writes: > On 01/09/2015 10:09 AM, David Engster wrote: >> Richard Stallman writes: >>> You and several others are trying to pressure me to decide to make >>> GCC output the full AST. I have seen insults and harassment. > >> >> Not from me, and I haven't seen anything like it on this thread. >> >>> This is not the way to convince me. It is the way to make me resent >>> your behavior. >> >> I've no idea what I've done to earn your resentment. I think my behavior >> was entirely reasonable, given that I've started with this only because >> you asked to base our tooling efforts on GCC. Anyway, you don't have to >> worry that I'll continue with this. > > This conversation seems unnecessarily final. I'm afraid it is final for me. Maybe someone else will step up. > Richard has valid concerns that need details, but since the AST (which > I know almost nothing about) is so huge (based on parser's I've > written), no matter how many details we may think of that are needed, > someone else can think of a bit that could indeed be unnecessary. I'm not willing to work under some elaborate rule set what I may and may not do with the AST. It is way too easy to make a mistake, and a few years ago I've learned the hard way that there's no such thing as an "honest mistake" when it comes to software's freedom. Also, what happens if someone else takes my code and simply rewrites it to dump everything? It would be trivial, since the real work is walking the AST and extracting its information. The only solution for defending against this is to restrict access to the AST in GCC's plugin interface, rendering my plugin unusable. Also, I seem to be unable to discuss with Richard without him calling out my behavior, so I'm clearly not the right person for this job. -David