From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:51:08 +0200 Message-ID: <871tcusic3.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <561A19AB.5060001@cumego.com> <87io6dl0h0.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87lhb82qxc.fsf@gmail.com> <87oag4jk74.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87k2qrki45.fsf@wanadoo.es> <8737xf9je9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87pp0fm0j3.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3kusx8z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lhb26eb9.fsf@gnu.org> <876126key3.fsf@gnu.org> <83fv1a6bfu.fsf@gnu.org> <5621513B.8060108@cumego.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445030005 17409 80.91.229.3 (16 Oct 2015 21:13:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:13:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Przemys=C5=82aw?= Wojnowski Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 23:13:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnCJK-0005Bi-40 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:13:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55782 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnBpI-0003fq-JE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:42:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43996) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnBoe-0003ch-Pe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:41:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnBob-0006Hd-Vd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:41:26 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36871) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnBoT-0006Fs-D6; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:41:17 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50689 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnBoQ-0002IZ-QH; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:41:15 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 28B72EBEAB; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:51:08 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <5621513B.8060108@cumego.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Przemys=C5=82aw?= Wojnowski"'s message of "Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:34:19 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191793 Archived-At: Przemys=C5=82aw Wojnowski writes: > W dniu 16.10.2015 o 18:11, Eli Zaretskii pisze: >> In any case, Emacs can never be satisfied with the current Guile >> infrastructure for i18n. There are too many shortcomings, some of >> them were mentioned here. Yes, Guile can be fixed to be better in >> that area, but no one is working on that, AFAIK, and what's more >> important, lead Guile developers don't even agree Guile should move in >> that direction. (This especially puzzles me: to have a good example >> before you and not follow it? Emacs learned what it has now the hard >> way, have paid in blood, sweat and tears for that knowledge, and still >> Guile developers think they "know better"? Present parties excluded, >> of course.) > > Is i18n the only obstacle? > IOW if someone would improve Guile's i18n infrastructure to match that of > Emacs, would it be included into Emacs? Don't underestimate the effort, but I think that is the largest obstacle currently. > To be clear, I'm not asking to make a pressure on you, but only in > context of motivation. If someone would know that i18n is the only > obstacle, It certainly isn't, but it's the elephant in the room. Emacs is very good at dealing with lots of textual stuff without getting confused and in many cases being capable of perfect reproduction. That's all rather important for making GUILE a universal extension language for multiple applications. So it's not just for Emacs' sake. > maybe this person(s) would find motivation to do the job. Without that > it is discouraging. Well, the other non-easy problem is that of nil, '(), and #f. The rest seems comparably straightforward. So there would be still work remaining, and sort of a fight for getting there. But currently there is not even a fight: Guile-Emacs is not a serious contender. --=20 David Kastrup