From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Stefan Huchler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency, again Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:01:18 +0200 Message-ID: <871sziq2zl.fsf@jupiter.lan> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <9D64B8EA-DB52-413D-AE6A-264416C391F3@iotcl.com> <83int1g0s5.fsf@gnu.org> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476464612 25729 195.159.176.226 (14 Oct 2016 17:03:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:03:32 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 14 19:03:28 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bv5t1-0004J7-Mq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:03:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48534 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bv5t0-0004XM-A0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 13:03:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47016) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bv5ry-0004V2-V0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 13:02:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bv5ru-0004OO-Ae for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 13:02:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=39202 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bv5ru-0004My-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 13:02:02 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bv5rQ-0000tH-Gs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:01:32 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 79 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:npREK2r+h0Z1OcCFN1r4814Fv4o= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208252 Archived-At: Hello guys, I want to add something to that conversation, John Wiegley writes: > And yet, this list is *about it* for me, and I practically live in Emacs. I'm > not even completely sure yet that solving these would appreciably benefit my > workflow. I don't mind the occasional coffee break. I gone from gnome to various tiling wms to finaly when it came up land in Exwm, for those who dont know it a emacs based window manager. It improved my workflow cause I dont have to handle a 2 layer applcation/buffer layout, I dont have to think that complex do I know change to other program like lets say thunderbird, or do I only have to change to another buffer like gnus (or *Groups*). I also dont have to switch first to emacs and then in a second step to gnus. I am shure many of you know think how does that relate to that topic, well if you use exwm, emacs is basicly your complete desktop. So concurency or parralism is much of a bigger problem. If you use a external browser you can do things there if emacs freezes, in exwm you cant. Also its nearly impossible for me to start a 2nd emacs for gnus inside exwm at least with the same configuration, cause it would eat the shortcuts to switch back to the "primary" emacs session. But gnus has on the one hand great usability and features on the other hand is a pain in the ass, using it on 2 different machines is difficult to setup, also the window configuration with constant resizing or creating many new buffers causes problems at least for my usecase, when I then switch to another buffer it gets not resised to full screen automaticly and when I switch back to gnus it does not rearange the buffers (or windows). So I question the quality of that package itself, and maybe hacking gnus itself would be a better way to make things better than rewrite emacs with some multithread magic. But yes I want a emacs browser and also instead of running this monstres proprietary javascript programs that makes us want to use 8 cpu cores, I would rather have better ways to extract the data from websites, and beeing able to answer to comments on websites with something like gnus groups. Also even I use keyboard driven browsers like conkeror or qutebrowser a native emacs browser would still be better. I maybe give a bit a mixed message, but my main points are that having a second emacs instance is not always a (easy) option, 2nd people like me want to use emacs as desktop, I think there locking is even a bigger issue. Maybe a middle step would be to integrate XELB/EXWM and just have more than one instance of emacs running but INSIDE emacs. so that you dont have 2 windows and then make them play better together with each other? Communicate between them? Maybe have single-progamm emacs instances tat then is a buffer in the master-emacs, that would also solve the problem with rearanging windows in gnus. Hope I did not talk to much unrelated stuff. But it gives you maybe a different perspective of a slightly different use case. > I just want to make sure we're not try to solve the technical problem just > because it's solvable; we should only solve it if it's a real problem that is > getting in people's way, or is stopping us from doing the Next Cool > Thing Yes I agree to that, there would be other places where a bit love would help. solving the browser-mess as example (luckily we see here movement with ewb and emacs xwidget/webkit.