From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Colin Baxter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:18:36 +0100 Message-ID: <871so6jgyb.fsf@jetstar> References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <87mv6uxkig.fsf@lylat> <46e80edb-399d-4063-8772-1f21be553eda@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503249557 14451 195.159.176.226 (20 Aug 2017 17:19:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 17:19:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: , Radon Rosborough , Emacs developers , Eli Zaretskii , Yuri Khan , Alex To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 20 19:19:11 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1djTsH-0002RZ-J6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 19:18:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40388 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djTsK-0007KZ-W6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:19:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35685) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djTsD-0007K4-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:18:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djTsC-0006iX-Vz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:18:53 -0400 Original-Received: from forward100o.mail.yandex.net ([37.140.190.180]:35724) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djTs9-0006hP-7I; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:18:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mxback1j.mail.yandex.net (mxback1j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1619::10a]) by forward100o.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 458D82A22D26; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 20:18:46 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: from smtp4p.mail.yandex.net (smtp4p.mail.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:0:1402::15:6]) by mxback1j.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id T1uJESUbhc-IdOGmIoe; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 20:18:40 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1503249520; bh=nVcTR4lGTspcX6oUJQklFT05nGdZ/LjW0YQF5wBaVdw=; h=From:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; b=gcWENaUVvxmEWcNWs4jLBPz+WCBo7bGt84DS9VKxEizyzyGTfvAZ1ECl6+MEnqWMp vAZuJnvbVvAnGjpauPSWT02Le9j6ybb+HiFaXxRWZ+a9odAxZ58Xj/l/Doo91NRlyb JOKr+wD7s1oy2s0QwbuxrBCCKdb5m98mi4Y3U3R4= Original-Received: by smtp4p.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id 1LuJVUioxf-Icw451uR; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 20:18:38 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1503249518; bh=nVcTR4lGTspcX6oUJQklFT05nGdZ/LjW0YQF5wBaVdw=; h=From:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID; b=Q4g+OCiIYbGaYP3iyfYjf0wr8QfyQWQ+1zCaueUAcWHO3sgTvRUABoiXboWN07DjY LVb5ZEi3Mn7DOMvIOX2c7JT7naFYsDKzz1lbd+GnFzbjhG08tTElNZRqHd+NNxkR6P SP5R4ErPn+diGQHRNXXknGEQg5kIZqKAFGo4D4LY= Authentication-Results: smtp4p.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.com X-Face: -P+89ASh_wrs;AUGm`!l[}/o-lyK}5W.gq\fkJ{#d6Gu,hWrZNz::iMm5PJb} __A96]-LUrl)X=uF=V|\3-\9/sXvBs/H In-Reply-To: <46e80edb-399d-4063-8772-1f21be553eda@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 20 Aug 2017 09:54:32 -0700 (PDT)") Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAMCAIAAACWSshgAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAA 4ElEQVQ4je2TO07DUBBFz9gvz4QOpWEJNOlZTHbAcqLsgMXQp2EJNBFlhPI+FFaq3OsiBRVTztEZ X9nXsYdAzMfz+v3lSRHejqft6Uei42Y6bDcS7T6/X7/Ot/sOaYKknBzBIK8xRmRNGL2VIx7VviyE WAWM+l4OJhMie2tlrBEX+28nFegK1A5NEmrnYs7dYVVI1RSz0WnmSThCxbJGl6TOfdDJO4QmVpnH Wd1avphDLBTzwZxbKuYQ0ir/xbzu52LqENiKFSgmRPFWNVaDdDGfpPryhfmh8Pv5oHwTDX4BTj9W 1MOan54AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 37.140.190.180 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217635 Archived-At: >>>>> Drew Adams writes: > +1 - what Yuri said. > And this is not just about new users. Such an interrogation is > not friendly for new or old users, even if old users might have a > better chance of understanding what is meant. > There must be a way to make package.el behavior failsafe, simple, > and without gotchas, for users. That should be the goal. > Whether that can be done in a backward-compatible way is, IMHO, > less important than making sure the new behavior is solid. > Using the package system should be opt-in, and it should be simple > and unintimidating. > (Just one opinion.) Emacs code browser (ecb) copies the old init file to ~/.emacs.before_ecb_2.40 before inserting an option into the original ~/.emacs. The user is told all this before he is asked to ok it. It's all straightforward and transparent, even to a newbie like me. Could not something similar be used in the case of package.el? -- -- Colin Baxter m43cap@yandex.com GnuPG fingerprint: 68A8 799C 0230 16E7 BF68 2A27 BBFA 2492 91F5 41C8