From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master b88e7c8: Make transpose-regions interactive (Bug#30343) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:05:09 -0500 Message-ID: <871sgaacru.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <20180311105533.30002.78782@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20180311105534.3DAFD23CF3@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <83woyiscns.fsf@gnu.org> <87po44jb7w.fsf@red-bean.com> <20180311105533.30002.78782@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20180311105534.3DAFD23CF3@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <83woyiscns.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7v2zb27.fsf@red-bean.com> <838tallwpg.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7v0brtb.fsf@red-bean.com> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1521828236 24650 195.159.176.226 (23 Mar 2018 18:03:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 18:03:56 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 23 19:03:52 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ezR2d-0006Jx-WC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 19:03:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39245 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ezR4h-0001Fj-Do for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:05:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40009) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ezR3z-0001EJ-R8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:05:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ezR3x-0005RZ-4b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:05:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d]:41848) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ezR3w-0005RD-Ux for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:05:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id i28-v6so14171714otf.8 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=l12ux0uUmIMkoPbWtWJZTzXQGpryb/jLEp0NkCAMkFw=; b=F39Y1OAIQryyJPN3gRCPwhC+mGHHc5RhTJI652V04NB7dhh4t6vFUTMRXlO4gQ9app /oz9PBIuAdpL/lvRX2ze1giK6+W1NIAixpqtRn/PSRaTybqbMfZAk68n8kx2XJJATyAs J6WtolmF6LMU/tUEPQVDcKa6OmEo+cO3YDD2iVubpuqwFji9P3QqmDcHCe5tcg35mQMd qpYZDiBkdE0rUYLPHgq1WqOE48U8lr6wI4zdq9jLbgdwjWpwINSWHQoddLXBRqmOW9lh 6Y+oBS94CL+A1TE9TTSP+KeL5UzUt2vQWe/CmziTEx3LCKHE3d0EWK0v0PxYPFM2ATA7 9wqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=l12ux0uUmIMkoPbWtWJZTzXQGpryb/jLEp0NkCAMkFw=; b=EZuyZoXo5O2Wz6L7l2LutRt6B4hPFB/8sDwtP6cHu2Atv2AGx0uUrz3TIUhfVidvqY z29S0JVFBGKDcBjaI7g238UDVZrYKwzGXcQASN3BRash8Lbmokq2A6VfTZQv45iezLFU GDZa8iWa1uZasuW6uJ0Yr06ezz3lqzi3I9cnPBWw9xtQl1Ck6UD3J8t08STEAkboU0GZ KcB9iS+RyBzh3ofZ5BvEYD4/oU+MabYDw9MqBsrF1s5C/CRgeRFzsnuEdQNhA9ct2taR PkevMMbgs9KeIAyPvLmqmqic7EmpNPKGeeRfs5EJzxtc7YeKAiFWfULxOahu2DV2Rrr7 9BUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7EHWEfRu40OpWaKs30xVxS/bDHupVfZ7ERbFRtDKSrI29UXc4x7 q0fvcnhClh/Wk/YsAjIB9VEYfg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4892xzayWD/VYKh2/byx+CKbIpVeY6wBNxSVyrejwROJu2rnfatLqrdl7CpRPY8okDc5rs7YA== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5a08:: with SMTP id v8-v6mr3491106oth.380.1521828312082; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from kwork (74-92-190-114-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b124sm5063213oif.28.2018.03.23.11.05.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:05:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 22 Mar 2018 09:39:35 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223973 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >I haven't really participated so far since it's definitely a bikeshed's >color kind of discussion, but since I'm to blame for it, I'll try and >explain why I brought it up: > >I said I "dislike seeing" such code, without any further explanation >because indeed, there's no strong technical reason behind it (I could >come up with various technical reasons, but they'd just be >rationalizations). I guess it just reflects my "strong types" >background, where I like my code to be sanity checked by a static >analyzer. For Elisp we don't have any strong static analyzer available, >so we use the next best thing: our byte-compiler's warnings. > >With "Elisp embedded in C strings", we don't have any such tool >support, so it makes me feel "unprotected" (we can't even be sure that >parentheses are balanced without run-time testing). > >I didn't bring it up with the aim to try and change that specific chunk >of code, but rather to get the opinion of others, and probably also to >try and influence future code. I'm not going to push to reinstate the change -- it's not important enough. But since you're soliciting opinions, I agree with your reasons above, as well as the ones I gave earlier. However... http://fuchsia.bikeshed.com/, as you said.