From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 21:27:14 +0100 Message-ID: <871rnydt5p.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <97DA7804-F647-4A1D-B8E0-AFFE7A324C64@gmail.com> <87d07xamrg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878silajdl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tv18pyh4.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87ftcqors3.fsf@russet.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="28110"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , Yuan Fu , Emacs developers , ndame To: "Richard M. Stallman" , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 05 22:28:40 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jW4BE-0007Do-PW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 22:28:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36324 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW4BD-0002fK-N3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 16:28:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45386) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW4Af-0001ay-Ic for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 16:28:05 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:33636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW4Ad-0002Jd-Fk; Tue, 05 May 2020 16:28:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4xNp+/WqUqQ137Obnt9f1CO6cmgflgV7LCaPpSc4qU8=; b=GIw14ihBS/btYQ/8PtOiUOH8y eH6FlBe4erx0SWuCRc+D43ysC/B+4M+yaQYIZvOY0Tne/fE52xAI0KEEhlgI02Ed8F3FQ8/e2Oe0k 8F2VEYrgJI4Lk2x0nYo41AIMJzCcjCbnVpwyocOetukZbo9i1JiKsSYgwcajXmItUT+E8cQHGveaC MQeXwoWXZR/DxqEKH/7K1bb7kyr0Bfb0z1gfk4PM2qf0M8L6ex4Vq8k11BngKQgNoqr3AQKJ2RweO /09OwS19zkqD1YRf44rz2jKOCpFDSJBbTGFuC4EfIkyFSPdt6C4DvpP4z3Ly+HBNZAYm0TReAmOV2 EXgBDAhTA==; Original-Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:60314 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jW49u-0004ld-Qf; Tue, 05 May 2020 21:27:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:04:31 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/05 16:27:19 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249036 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I don't understand this logic. If most (although not all) of the >> information in copyright.list can be gleaned from running git log, or >> looking at AUTHORS, > > The official list is not specific to Emacs, includes real names (for > people who are otherwise only known via pseudonyms), birthdates, > countries, and other such info. > so it's quite different from the info you can get from Git. > >> where is the privacy issue? > > To be honest, I'm not sure. I'd also like to know since without with > info it's hard to figure out what could be done. > > E.g. would it OK if I filtered the list to only include paperwork that > covers contributions to Emacs and that only includes the names and > email addresses? > I think it would satisfy your use case, but would it be acceptable in > terms of privacy? I don't know! > >> What not ask everyone when they submit their papers, if they are happy >> to be public, along with a list of their commonly used aliases, emails >> and so forth? > > That would be great. Note that we (maintainers) don't have any direct > involvement in this, sadly. The list is maintained by the FSF's > "clerk", so we should move this conversation there. > >> Put this information up on the web, along with a RESTful API. >> Add some command line tools, so that people can add it to the >> CI tooling. > > Even better, yes, I have tried having this discussion before. We did get a partly working system which was marginally better than asking copyright@fsf everytime, but I think it only partly worked, required me to keep manual records of where requests where and so forth. Ultimately, anything that we do from here is going to cost time and/or money either in development or just going through the entire list and asking everyones permission. For Emacs, development, I am sure it would be worth it. Richard, I have cc'd you in. What would be the governance proceedure to follow to have the FSF investigate and do this work, to make it easier to check copyright assignment. Phil