From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ricardo Wurmus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 19:43:41 +0200 Message-ID: <871rj628mq.fsf@elephly.net> References: <20200909165723.kdnwicwvplmezusr@Ergus> <20200910102000.2t6tsju745xutg7u@Ergus> <20200910110832.ko66gqnqo4l664d6@Ergus> <20200911134225.zhnlq7cdhmu2iraj@Ergus> <20200911221435.go7b5kz2zcvxp2ft@Ergus> <20200912153723.ymnq3i5pugqf7lsy@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30823"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Alfred M. Szmidt" , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 19:43:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH9Yl-0007wC-W6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 19:43:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55464 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH9Yl-0004dP-1A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 13:43:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45664) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH9Xr-0003rb-36 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 13:42:39 -0400 Original-Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21127) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH9Xk-0000op-3D; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 13:42:38 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1599932549; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=jyx8aoWvzsfp5AwYITnR5sRlUtj0qhrIbI7h5/pR2i560hEsPQ7aLHW0bwecSXSC8umWERiszznOBCxEOs9qF7sVEt9XQsUgqmn32qoCMMMaH+rN9b3gbCVJKmdrugbwsin0fh2op4SyV7vIvmm8sH6U2YOPXYiwOQXlrZ1tlLE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1599932549; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=8GAzSuVnn5CRwxH2gY1jbaom3pZ6lGSb77kcq8gt4cg=; b=Mp8lp3FHf8bnmZLBz+KjXnxcsth1MC1e4sPgicRYOJrQMPM4zbgsgiWiNjUaT9FRfdsuifHu2fb6JIxPSwJBJPIZy9HhTRUhSlbQGbWbbWCH5kZdyfsbITks1XCiyD23rHuRBGq+KI2cp/6dxYzJMqC+XrQe+GDTDzE3IczkRPM= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1599932549; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=8GAzSuVnn5CRwxH2gY1jbaom3pZ6lGSb77kcq8gt4cg=; b=L2WTWrnnwFyur2M/ipUu/z5r1hnHLOgYvQwhb7PwsH+op275EcofQ1dEVDzn+lOo HEtoyiE4SwqSg8IwwfWnkaJ5M1mvqBB97UN5a2yd6kWBxLefFAqJgDyfD0yXLLntATx +YkWHJFl7DPW/6UNPywVZCB/B/3VrqwMi0OtlZbQ= Original-Received: from localhost (p4fd5a35d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.213.163.93]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1599932547234441.32132896191047; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:42:27 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <20200912153723.ymnq3i5pugqf7lsy@Ergus> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC X-ZohoMailClient: External Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.188.51; envelope-from=rekado@elephly.net; helo=sender4-of-o51.zoho.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 13:42:30 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255396 Archived-At: Ergus writes: >>New users don't have to understand it from the start though, it is >>something one can come to understand with using Emacs. If you hover >>with the mouse over each item, it will describe what each thing means, >>and you can change each thing accordingly. >> > New users are used to know if the document has changes at least. And in > the applications they use: filename* by default. We have buffers that end on =E2=80=9C*=E2=80=9D, such as =E2=80=9C*scratch*= =E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C*shell*=E2=80=9D (M-x shell), =E2=80=9C*mu4e-view*=E2=80=9D, etc. Emacs can display graphics and= /or Unicode characters; it doesn=E2=80=99t need to follow a convention here other than = to provide *some* indication of a changed buffer. The modeline already separately indicates a changed buffer with =E2=80=9C*= =E2=80=9D (and another =E2=80=9C*=E2=80=9D to indicate that the buffer is writable). Mode= line themes such as the excellent smart-mode-line display a coloured Unicode character instead (a vertically centered cross), which works just as well. >> 3) Colors: People prefer higher contrast in general 4 example: in my >> system when the region es enabled the default gray color is so light >> that I can't see it. Same applies to icon that when enabled or disabled >> the difference sometimes is minimal. >> >>Can you provide research on that people do actually prefer higher >>contrast in general? Your example doesn't really follow from the >>first claim -- since that is your specific preference, not everyone >>elses preference. >> > Lock back in this same thread there was a long discussion about > that. The supporters of light colors brought some articles about > astigmatism and so on, while the others bring different ones. > > Again look around and compare what you see. None of the articles AFAIR talked about *high* contrast; many user interface guidelines and accessibility recommendations do recommend sufficient contrast (sometimes quantified as a minimum contrast between two colours), but this doesn=E2=80=99t mean that higher contrast is always better than lower contrast. The Solarized colour palette, for example, aims to provide *equal* contrast, but is agnostic on exactly how high the contrast threshold should be (in some implementations of the theme the contrast threshold can trivially be adjusted). Back to the original claim: I cannot reproduce the problem in =E2=80=9Cemacs -Q=E2=80=9D; when I activate the region the background and foreground colou= rs of the text in the region are swapped, providing the same contrast as when the region is not active. --=20 Ricardo